Is it a exploit to log off on a mothership to deliberately avoid lootable?

[Stave Petty]

There was an answer on this previously, but it was deleted, this has caused some uncertanty on the matter, so kim, could you please clarify for us....

Is it a exploit to log off on a mothership to deliberately avoid lootable space?

[John Black Knight]

Originally Posted by Stave Petty

There was an answer on this previously, but it was deleted, this has caused some uncertanty on the matter, so kim, could you please clarify for us....

Is it a exploit to log off on a mothership to deliberately avoid lootable space?

Traveling with quadwing is just as safe as traveling offline on a mothership and on top of that you are even faster at your destination.
My guess would be that this is the reason Kim withdraw her statement and probably a new one wont be made before the next space update.

[chevrons]

IMO an exploit is taking some action within the game in order to obtain an advantage.

Logging off is not an action which begins and ends within the game, it is leaving the game, and cannot be an exploit by definition, and that's apart from the fact that it is a common and normal activity.

IF MA previously implied it might be considered an exploit, I'm sure they withdrew the suggestion because it is just too absurd.

If MA want to prevent their PvP being circumvented, they need to come up with a better design (and of course no-one on the Forums has yet managed to do that). Lootable PvP and spatial movement on a mothership whilst logged out are simply incompatable concepts.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by chevrons

IMO an exploit is taking some action within the game in order to obtain an advantage.

Logging off is not an action which begins and ends within the game, it is leaving the game, and cannot be an exploit by definition, and that's apart from the fact that it is a common and normal activity.

IF MA previously implied it might be considered an exploit, I'm sure they withdrew the suggestion because it is just too absurd.

If MA want to prevent their PvP being circumvented, they need to come up with a better design (and of course no-one on the Forums has yet managed to do that). Lootable PvP and spatial movement on a mothership whilst logged out are simply incompatable concepts.

Excuses. Logging off and back on later to avoid lootable pvp certainly could be considered an exploit. An exploit is using the game in a way the designer did not intend in order to gain an advantage.

Since MA made all of space lootable pvp I doubt they intended for it to be avoided simply by logging out.

However, the statement was deleted so there is no longer an official comment so I guess have at it.

[John Black Knight]

Originally Posted by Xen

An exploit is using the game in a way the designer did not intend in order to gain an advantage.

So where exactly do you see the 'advantage', if someone logs out and back in to get his stackables safe to another planet, when he could just use the system as is and bring his stackables to that planet 100% safe and 250%+ faster using a quadwing ?

So if there is a way of usage of an feature implemented by the designers but maybe not intended by them, which is actually a disadvantage compared to other ways of usage - would you think it still qualifies as an exploit ?



We have already provided alot of possible solutions here on the forums how to fix the current space issues - leave Mindark some time to get them evaluated and implemented instead of screaming for rules to put people who might just have a bad connection in a corner

[aia]

Originally Posted by John Black Knight

Traveling with quadwing is just as safe as traveling offline on a mothership and on top of that you are even faster at your destination.

A quadwing isn't 100% safe. When travelling to NI a few days ago, one ship charged at us but turned around (probably seeing we were two in the ship). We met a second ship halfways which started to shoot at us but we managed to take that one down and continue.

A quadwing is safer than a vtol since you're unlikely to get stalked from behind, but if the pilot is half-asleep and/or have bad luck, a (pirate) ship that comes the other direction can get in a few shots.

I guess the key thing here is having a *good* (experienced) pilot steering the spaceship, so he avoids running into other ships in time before they come close enouigh to start firing.

As for safety vs speed. if you are carrying a significant amount of stackables, I think 60 minutes instead of 30 minutes for 100% safety instead of 95% safety is an easy choice. Also if you do get attacked (possibly shot down), the 30 minutes might be longer if you need to take a detour to a space station for repairs and for buying more defensive ammo.

[John Black Knight]

Originally Posted by aia

A quadwing isn't 100% safe. When travelling to NI a few days ago, one ship charged at us but turned around (probably seeing we were two in the ship). We met a second ship halfways which started to shoot at us but we managed to take that one down and continue.

A quadwing is safer than a vtol since you're unlikely to get stalked from behind, but if the pilot is half-asleep and/or have bad luck, a (pirate) ship that comes the other direction can get in a few shots.

I guess the key thing here is having a *good* (experienced) pilot steering the spaceship, so he avoids running into other ships in time before they come close enouigh to start firing.

As for safety vs speed. if you are carrying a significant amount of stackables, I think 60 minutes instead of 30 minutes for 100% safety instead of 95% safety is an easy choice. Also if you do get attacked (possibly shot down), the 30 minutes might be longer if you need to take a detour to a space station for repairs and for buying more defensive ammo.

Unexperienced pilots are no excuse as this is just as true for mothership pilots. If you have people logged on board they need to log back in at some point, if you get your mothership charged and killed by pirates again and again then you might end up trapped at a spacestation with some unhappy customers that are put at great risk. The key is to leave the system secretly and choose a route not scouted by pirates. This is alot more easy to accomplish with a quad then a mothership.
And considering the amount of people needed to run a mothership you could just as easy have a second quad scouting the way for the quad with the stackables...

[zippo]

Originally Posted by Xen

Excuses. Logging off and back on later to avoid lootable pvp certainly could be considered an exploit. An exploit is using the game in a way the designer did not intend in order to gain an advantage.

Since MA made all of space lootable pvp I doubt they intended for it to be avoided simply by logging out.

However, the statement was deleted so there is no longer an official comment so I guess have at it.

I agree that logging off is an exploit. However i don't think there is a damn thing anything can be done about this even from MA's end. So in the end it will happen and these "exploiters" will reap the beni's of not being looted

[John Black Knight]

Originally Posted by zippo

I agree that logging off is an exploit. However i don't think there is a damn thing anything can be done about this even from MA's end. So in the end it will happen and these "exploiters" will reap the beni's of not being looted

Alot of things can be done and have been suggested:
- weight limitations (without hardcap) for all spacecrafts affecting traveling speed
- movement of avatars who log out on board of a mothership/privateer and are above certain weight limitations (defined for space travel per avatar) to the closest spacestation or the last spacestation the mothership/privateer was docked to
- adjustment of stackable weights where needed for balancing reasons
- implementation of bluezones of different sizes per spacecraft category (small - fighter, medium-privateers, large-motherships)
- radar for all spacecrafts (small range - fighter, medium range privateers, long range motherships)

and there you are with an all lootable pvp area of which noone can escape with an fair battleground for everyone...

[BenCoyote]

Now here's another thought no one has thought off, and this is in regards to the issue of stability within the game itself.

I mean let's see a show of hands. I mean I'll raise my hand as well, as i have had a "Crash To Desktop" (CTD) disconnect me a number of times especially when the game's client loader does so.

So then here's the important question... What if you lose connection and Crash to Desktop? If this were the case and the solution were that you were literally ejected from the mother ship, then you'd end up at the nearest space station, safe and sound. But then have to find a way to your destination via other means..And in the end, the captain of the ship you were so "Rudely" ejected from due to your CTD, could in theory ask for payment in advance, and thus gain economic advantages, over you , thus it could be considered an exploit due to instability issues.

Also this brings up another issue with CTD, and this goes back to the issue of logging out. What if you inadvertently CTD just as you start out on your trip, or your internet went down to some unannounced maintenance on your Connection to your house, and you are not able to get re-connected until 20 minutes later when the ship docked at whatever planet's spacestation. or more minutes later?

Would this be considered an exploit? Because you ahve no control over your ISP, nor the people working on your internet connection. Also what about issues with say Power blackouts, lightning storms, and evenother "Acts of God and man?" would these be considered exploits as well in this game

See both these conditions could in theory be either considered an exploit or not. and for good reason. So if this game is going to be playable, and thus have stability so that you can maintain connection, and provided you don't have any iinadvertant accidental connection issues due to your own ISP doing maintenance, the real question is.. if an accidental CTD or an "Act of Connection loss occurs, then the question is.. Are you exploiting because of this?

Answer that question.. and then you can give all of us an answer of whether an issue of a CTD or a lost connection of internet would be considered the same?

Benjamin 'Ben' Coyote
a.k.a. "The Blind Sniper"