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Old 10-20-2011, 03:18   #11
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You are missing the point. I said the disciple would take the gift at the same moment as they do now. But the mentor gift would come few peds TT later. So this would not hurt any newcomers.
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Old 10-21-2011, 18:23   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjorn|MindArk View Post
In the specific case that you mention regarding potential abuse or 'farming' of mentor gifts by those using multiple accounts- I can assure you that we keep a close eye on such things, and we will take swift and stern action against anyone found to be abusing the Mentoring system, or any other game systems.
Like how your not dealing with the ongoing issue of people creating many multiple accounts to farm the calypso gateway to get free ped?

Action speaks louder than words...

So show us that what you say is true and deal with the problems that have been reported more than enough.

Doesnt help that you can now create as many accounts as you like without providing any details at all, not even a email...
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Old 10-21-2011, 19:49   #13
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I dont think this is a problem.

The value of mentoring gifts received for the most part does not equal the value of deposits put in to gain those gifts. That items are selling for high markup right now is normal EU economics. People want "new." As the game system progresses and more individuals graduate the market floods these items will lose their novelty, lose their rarity, and become run of the mill.

Frankly I'd rather worry about something that mattered, rather than worry about something that doesn't. I don't think this matters.
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Old 10-21-2011, 20:42   #14
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Disciple graduating should be in reach for a casual player with a "normal" avatar life (2 years tops) and to be considered what it is, the 2nd step ingame, not the whole bloody EU experience.

Nor EU as a whole nor discipleship in particular should be aimed at 10+ hours/day, 4 years+ player because:

1. in the large mass of potential customers (= depositor) such player is usually either too young to work either too rich too work, none of which should be EU's main target.

2. from the perspective of an addicted 6years+ player like myself who is still aware of where is ground and where is my butt, discipleship should represent the more educative introduction to EU, next step after Gateway, but not mastership of EU. In same time, one should be able to get into stuff in a comparative speed to any other MMO. EU is and should stay a hobby for masses of casual players who ought to have bits of rewards and satisfactions in a manner comparative to any other game. Both discipleship and mentoring ought to be resolved in this perspective since tight community is what it's keeping this ridiculously expensive (especially in these RL circumstances) game alive.

For EU to survive, it needs to address exponentially more to casual players who want some fun for their buck rather than to some sort of sect who, for unapparent reasons, would dedicate years of their life to, lo' and behold, acquire whatever tt of skill. You must understand that if such target would be presented to a player just out of Gateway (with sort of calculation of what's that tt of skill in time and money), it would appear as plain stupid.

Such achievement/target should be aimed to those who chose to dedicate themselves to EU more than is normal for a game, otherwise would be just a nice method to scare away any regular normal-minded player who has to spend 2 hrs max a day.

EU does need addicts which to spend hundreds of $ a month. But it needs to captivate them in time, a too blunt approach would only lower the retention rate, and I think is quite clear where lack of interess for retention rate had lead so far. I am very interested in how the retention rate looks since introduction of Gateway (which we asked under various forms for quite some time) vs. old times when all you saw on weapons as stats were the full tt, ammo burn and max dmg.

Last edited by Kerham; 10-21-2011 at 21:05.
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:34   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stave Petty View Post
Like how your not dealing with the ongoing issue of people creating many multiple accounts to farm the calypso gateway to get free ped?

Action speaks louder than words...
Yeah, getting angry, the ideal way to encourage interaction with MA.

Not even directly on-topic, which you should be in this section. Make a thread elsewhere about this, since it bothers you.

Honestly, the gift issue isn't important. I don't think multiple accounts for farming ( of any sort ) is a huge issue either, but getting the skilling level for graduation right does matter. So people stay in the game. Real people.
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Old 10-22-2011, 07:22   #16
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what should happen is a MASSIVE EXPANSION of the system... make there be various levels of 'graduation' to new levels, etc... and different gifts, etc. for those that chose different routes... like one set for miners, one for hunters, one for crafters, and different gifts at like 5k skill, 10 k, 20k and so on... different gifts for those that are in society at time of graduation vs those that were freelancers... maybe even gifts for folks that never used a mentor at all... all that sort of stuff.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:03   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peez View Post
Yeah, getting angry, the ideal way to encourage interaction with MA.
Not angry, just stating a clear flaw in his statement.

Requesting that they prove to me that they are more than just words.

I posted here as its a direct response to his comment, its not about the gateway issue, its just pointing out that i see no evidence of ma taking swift and stern action against everyone abusing the ingame systems, as they should do.

And i for one, would like to see it happen for once.

A pattern i have noticed is that they are very short sighted and only focus on places where theres a big leak of abuse and loss of income, and ignoring the more long term but equally damaging smaller leaks of abuse and losses of income.

It all affects the economy and our returns in the long run, as at the end of the day, whatever exploit they use, they are stealing from mindark.

Theres no point to make a new thread to just directly reply to a ma response. Thats all this is.

Last edited by Stave Petty; 10-22-2011 at 09:08.
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Old 10-22-2011, 14:36   #18
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I would like to just say also. I am a deciple and I have already calced it out that it will take about 4000ped to graduate on hunting. There is no way that anybody will be able to farm this because the amount of time sweating or the amount of money depoed absolutely is not worth the prize. The deciple program is more of an extra possibility that we will maybe one day finish. So far from other people I've talked to the cheapest way to finish the program is by repair skilling on an MS, but even then it'll take a good 2000 or so ped to finish.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:15   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlorencioNineWind View Post
I would like to just say also. I am a deciple and I have already calced it out that it will take about 4000ped to graduate on hunting. There is no way that anybody will be able to farm this because the amount of time sweating or the amount of money depoed absolutely is not worth the prize. The deciple program is more of an extra possibility that we will maybe one day finish. So far from other people I've talked to the cheapest way to finish the program is by repair skilling on an MS, but even then it'll take a good 2000 or so ped to finish.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:47   #20
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Mentoring is a great thing MA did. The fact that disciples get a gift too is great. But this system can be and will be abused. People will farm it by making new accounts - now that is so easy. To graduate in mining, and even in hunting will take only few days and few peds. It is just too easy to exploit this system
It is exploited already, just like the old system. Quite some ppl are actively "collecting" newbies yet, and that doesn't mean that 2nd accounts are used in this necessarily - just "kidnap 'em nOObs" at the sweating grounds, or in the forums ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
In my opinion, disciples should have an easy time graduating, and getting their gift. However, a mentor should only get its gift only when a disciple will reach naturally 280 ped TT (around 6000 skill points) in any skill, [...]
Kidding? 6K in one skill? Most mentors would never get a gift. Mine would have to wait for quite some year more, even if she had accepted me the day when I came, close to 6 years before ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
[...] and that should be reduced if the disciple ever chips out from that skill.
"Your TT pocket knife ME has been removed from your hand, because the disciple that earned it for you years ago has chipped out. Try strangling this mob instead, maybe?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
If a disciple decides to kick its mentor after the disciple graduates, the most TT skill that disciple generated should be transferred to a buffer, and the mentor should be able to claim its gift whenever that buffer reaches 500 ped TT (from all the other disciples one may have).
Surreal. And not leading to any benefit, because it would encourage the "nOOb farming" even more. With the only difference that now only the meanest of all them "nOOb farmers" would ever get their ME pocket knife.
Make a Soc for a few middle class players that you sponsor a bit, in exchange they do the mentoring for you for your hordes of disciples ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Also, a sum of TT in more skills can be used, since many people go multiple professions. A fair system can be made.
This is the only point I agree here. The current system that encourages the raising of a single skill is hand-tailored for rifle-only hunters and miners-only. Crafters, Melee people, Pistoleers any other professions are at a disadvantage because they cannot concentrate on a single skill this much. And mentors are more or less forced to teach their disciples to become such one-trick-ponies now, else they'd wait much longer for their gift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Such a change will prevent people from exploiting the system. I would also make mentoring gifts and mentoring skills more meaningful.
I'm sure you wrote your thread in the best intentions, but I cannot help but to see little benefit in your proposals.

Let's have a look at the problem:
  • What would be the benefit of the mentoring system at all?
    I can see 2 main points:
    1. The disciple should be encouraged to stay for a while, maybe even to deposit. Thus a nice gift for it when graduating, this "gift for the disciple too" is a great improvement IMHO.
    2. Seasoned people should be encouraged to guide and teach the new players, this way making it a bit more comfortable for them.
    Summary: Retention. New players should stay, not leave frustrated after 1 or 2 weeks. This is the reason for the mentoring system at all, and it's a good one.
    .
  • So now we can decide how long the disciple-hood should be.
    4 weeks? We have to consider that some people will throw in a $100 note, ready to burn it to get their gift while others will be reluctant to deposit any money as long as they haven't got a clear view of the game. And there will be people able to play 12/7 while others may be restricted to 4/2 (family people and weekend warriors).

    We see, time is not measure. But a single skill isn't, too. So a sum of skills?
    Hey, we have such beast already, it named "attributes"!
    Ignore the ones got from missions, and set the goal to [any number]. Rise your attributes for a sum of [any number], and graduate!
    .
  • Now to another problem:
    A nOOb needs care. Care them well, and they will prosper. Ignore them, and they will leave.

    So how could a mentor that has collected 20 nOObs care them well? Imagine you're a nOOb, have a question to your mentor as soon as he will come on line, you'll have to draw a number and wait in the line ...
    Madness. Mentorship should be restricted to at most 2 - 3 disciples at a time.
    .
  • The gift, still a problem:
    Murphy rules, so you as passionate pistoleer will inevitably receive a club ME.
    This is no fun.

    Why not create ME toys in every category, ranging from tier 1-5 according to their usefulness?
    Why not give "Mentorship tokens" (not tradable) to the mentor when a disciple graduates?
    Why not have a "Mentorship NPC" at every planet where you can trade them?
    1 token for 1 tier, you chose if you want a laser carbine, a plasma pistol, a FAP or an attack chip.

Just a few ideas, quickly written down, will need a lot of refinement for sure. But I think such an approach would make more sense.

I doubt that it would be beneficial making mentoring too easy, or too hard. It has to be balanced. To reach the goal, and to avoid abuse, it has to be carefully implemented, and to be carefully watched.

But it should be assured that any capable player could be a successful mentor, and it should be assured that at least a sufficient percentage of the new players would be able to finish a discipleship. IMHO.

Have a good time, no harm meant!
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