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Old 10-17-2011, 13:55   #1
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Mentoring gifts: too easy to get?

Mentoring is a great thing MA did. The fact that disciples get a gift too is great. But this system can be and will be abused. People will farm it by making new accounts - now that is so easy. To graduate in mining, and even in hunting will take only few days and few peds. It is just too easy to exploit this system

Having a mentoring system, I think is good if mentors actually help new players, and not just feed them some BS for few days until they get their gift, and after that bye bye.

In my opinion, disciples should have an easy time graduating, and getting their gift. However, a mentor should only get its gift only when a disciple will reach naturally 280 ped TT (around 6000 skill points) in any skill, and that should be reduced if the disciple ever chips out from that skill.

If a disciple decides to kick its mentor after the disciple graduates, the most TT skill that disciple generated should be transferred to a buffer, and the mentor should be able to claim its gift whenever that buffer reaches 500 ped TT (from all the other disciples one may have).
Also, a sum of TT in more skills can be used, since many people go multiple professions. A fair system can be made.
Such a change will prevent people from exploiting the system. I would also make mentoring gifts and mentoring skills more meaningful.
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Old 10-17-2011, 15:52   #2
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If you think it's easy for a newbie disciple (your new, second accounts) to graduate using tools appropriate for them (not handing the newb a foeripper and losing tons of ped), I suggest you try it yourself. It takes a while.
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Old 10-17-2011, 17:00   #3
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I think your own skill count has warped your view of the games reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
... a mentor should only get its gift only when a disciple will reach naturally 280 ped TT (around 6000 skill points) in any skill...
I have been playing for over 3.5 years and although I have never invested in 'uber' gear I have consistently been skilling for the 3+ of that since I started depositing.

I have over 150k total skills, and only 147hp. I have eaten less than 50ped tt of chips and my highest skill is still less than 6k.

Using a cb19+beast (his current location on the sib ladder) one of my disciples graduated in about 2 weeks. I am sure that a pure noob will take longer just because they don't have the confidence in the system to spend that fast.

I think that a better change may be to reward the mentor/disciple relationship more if they are in the same society for 90+% of the discipleship.

There are some high skilled players in the game who are taking on disciples but not into their society. (I understand why they wouldnt since they want to have high ranks etc..., but it is still a detriment to the disciple) I have one new player that joined my soc this week who has a well known 'uber' as their mentor.

As much as they could potentially learn from that person, they will learn more from the members in my society just because of the level of communication and a 'feeling' of care.

Ideas fed from just one person are dangerous regardless of how knowledgeable that person is. But when tempered by a group of people bouncing ideas and discussing the different angles without blind trust, then you can truly learn.

What are your thoughts on that? How many of your new 0 skill disciples are in your society? Do the members of your society contribute to your disciples education?

narfi
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Old 10-17-2011, 17:37   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narfi View Post
I think your own skill count has warped your view of the games reality.



I have been playing for over 3.5 years and although I have never invested in 'uber' gear I have consistently been skilling for the 3+ of that since I started depositing.

I have over 150k total skills, and only 147hp. I have eaten less than 50ped tt of chips and my highest skill is still less than 6k.
That is not a problem. It means your mentor would need to wait few more years to get his mentor gift.

Quote:

Using a cb19+beast (his current location on the sib ladder) one of my disciples graduated in about 2 weeks. I am sure that a pure noob will take longer just because they don't have the confidence in the system to spend that fast.
Again, that is exactly my problem. People will not learn the game in a year or more. And they graduate in 2-3 weeks of hardly playing. If it takes 6 years for them to graduate, I am fine with that. No one would be tempted to exploit, so only real mentors would stay mentors because it would make no sens for the rest to even try.
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I think that a better change may be to reward the mentor/disciple relationship more if they are in the same society for 90+% of the discipleship.


There are some high skilled players in the game who are taking on disciples but not into their society. (I understand why they wouldnt since they want to have high ranks etc..., but it is still a detriment to the disciple) I have one new player that joined my soc this week who has a well known 'uber' as their mentor.
If one thinks his mentor is not helping, he can always just quit. Is not like anyone forces a disciple to keep the mentor. Get a better one if the one you have sucks. If the one in your soc is better, get it.

Many people deal with this in many ways. I will have a society with my disciples and I will not be in that society. But I plan to have many in there. And they will grow, and when they reach a higher level, we may all join a bigger society, or they can join the one I am in now... Ther are many ways to make it be good for disciples without staying in same soc. You know that there are programs like skype, right?

Quote:

As much as they could potentially learn from that person, they will learn more from the members in my society just because of the level of communication and a 'feeling' of care.



Ideas fed from just one person are dangerous regardless of how knowledgeable that person is. But when tempered by a group of people bouncing ideas and discussing the different angles without blind trust, then you can truly learn.
No offense, but I would rather get ideas from one person that knows what is talking about, than from a ton of people that all they do is complain and cry about how bad and hard and messy things are without ever knowing that brain exists in this world to be used.
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What are your thoughts on that? How many of your new 0 skill disciples are in your society? Do the members of your society contribute to your disciples education?

narfi
None of my 0 skilled disciples are in my society. You hear any of them complaining about me?

Ofc, I said I don't take stupid people, so by start I eliminated most of those that could complain... so yea... big advantage to me.
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Old 10-17-2011, 23:44   #5
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I think it probably is too easy for people to graduate as it stands which, as you say, leaves the system wide open for exploitation. Nor do we want to see unique accounts run around for a few weeks, graduate, then drift away from the game once the hard reality kicks in.

That said, getting to 6k skillpoints makes it very tough and has the opposite effect, because mentoring has to have the goal of educating and retaining players, so too low or too high a requirement will fail.

Balance.
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Old 10-18-2011, 01:52   #6
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You have a point. Maybe 6k is too much. But as it is is way too little.
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Old 10-19-2011, 18:34   #7
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We are continually monitoring and reviewing the performance and usage of Entropia's game systems, especially new systems and systems which have been redesigned or relaunched- such as the Mentoring system.

If we find that game rewards are more easy (or more difficult) to achieve than intended, we have the ability to adjust parameters accordingly.

In the specific case that you mention regarding potential abuse or 'farming' of mentor gifts by those using multiple accounts- I can assure you that we keep a close eye on such things, and we will take swift and stern action against anyone found to be abusing the Mentoring system, or any other game systems.
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Old 10-19-2011, 21:01   #8
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Quote:
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***, and we will take swift and stern action against anyone found to be abusing the Mentoring system, or any other game systems.
Why don't i believe that?
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Old 10-19-2011, 23:41   #9
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i can bet whatever u want that the peds it will cost to achieve disciple cycle will be 10x average value of gift takens. So i guess ma would just be happy with people trying to "exploit" sinec they will lose more peds
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Old 10-20-2011, 00:14   #10
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It is just as good as it is I would say. Longer period like it was back then - it was pointless to invest time to newcomers as hardly one from 20 or more never ever finished. Now with 0 skills its quite normal challenge for disciple to finish. Also it does not take a half or whole year. It seems good for me and expoiters will be punished one day anyway. Its a small world in RL and ingame
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