Question: Why are you increasing the Missing?

[OZtwo]

Originally Posted by Neil Stockton

Those numbers don't actually tell us anything. In order to say that misses are increasing, you'd have to show the fraction of total shots that result in misses, and see if that fraction has changed. Also remember that any change in weapon setup will change the miss to hit ratio.

Since many wanted to know how many shots I did and not just how much was lost in total, I went back and did a little data processing.

From the data, I saw that at the end that the missing hasn't changed since I started about 1 year ago.

For the past year hit/miss ratio is at 12.7% loss in ammo due to missing. First month was 18.5% and the last three months has been at a steady 11.5%.

[Joat]

Originally Posted by KikkiJikki

I got a little lost in there.

IMO it comes down to:
- if returns are based on TT spent then misses cost you nothing
- if returns are based on damage done then misses do hurt.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

Depends on the efficieny in your interactions. Return could be based on tt spent,
but what is it that says you get back 100% of that in the lootcalculation?
MA don't take 100% of decay as revenue stream, so what is that says we get
100% back on what we spent in every interaction?

[KikkiJikki]

Originally Posted by Joat

Depends on the efficieny in your interactions. Return could be based on tt spent,
but what is it that says you get back 100% of that in the lootcalculation?
MA don't take 100% of decay as revenue stream, so what is that says we get
100% back on what we spent in every interaction?

I don't think anyone claims that. But don't really see that as relevant to the impact of misses one way or the other.

Personally I am in the damage done loot theory camp but I am relying on data collected by others and on reasoning (which could easily be based on faulty premises).

[Joat]

Originally Posted by KikkiJikki

I don't think anyone claims that. But don't really see that as relevant to the impact of misses one way or the other.

Personally I am in the damage done loot theory camp but I am relying on data collected by others and on reasoning (which could easily be based on faulty premises).

Yeah, I can't say *anyone* is wrong, since I don't have any facts from code.
The reasoning I use, is to look how it could work from a system p.o.v.
With the theory I go for, system doesn't have to recalculate any value based
on every interaction, no matter if it is a MISS, Crit, min-or maxdamage.
With the damage theory system need to recalculate every value per interaction.

[KikkiJikki]

We are getting a little offtopic but...

Game already tracks damage done by you to a mob. We know this because it needs to know if you are the legitimate looter, get the kill point in a mission etc.

[Joat]

Originally Posted by KikkiJikki

We are getting a little offtopic but...

Game already tracks damage done by you to a mob. We know this because it needs to know if you are the legitimate looter, get the kill point in a mission etc.

Not really a offtopic, since MISS is a feature. If we don't want to discover
how the whole system works, whats the point of complaining of just some
parts?

This doesn't require much resources from server, it's just a simple + or -, but
most importent, it's based per object. Loot isn't based per object atm, it's
based on a process. This might be changed soon thou', but basics are
probably the same even after that loot might get payed out per object.

[KikkiJikki]

Originally Posted by Joat

Loot isn't based per object atm, it's based on a process.

Well thats one opinion but is it based on any data?

Consider the following possible scenario:
I kill a mob doing x damage. When I click to loot that mob object, the client does a call - F_loot(mob, dam(x), {other possible params}). F_loot is a black box function that determines TT value of loot and then uses some loot table to construct list of specific items and stackables to make up that TT value.

Or perhaps the function takes other parameters such as TT expended. But this is clearly object based, appears feasible, is not complex and is supported by the observed behaviour. We know there is a call to the server at the time of clicking on the mob because of observed loot server lag that is consistant with a queued up bunch of requests. Globals, when they are occur are linked to a specific loot click.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

[Nor Alien]

Originally Posted by KikkiJikki

Well thats one opinion but is it based on any data?

Consider the following possible scenario:
I kill a mob doing x damage. When I click to loot that mob object, the client does a call - F_loot(mob, dam(x), {other possible params}). F_loot is a black box function that determines TT value of loot and then uses some loot table to construct list of specific items and stackables to make up that TT value.

Or perhaps the function takes other parameters such as TT expended. But this is clearly object based, appears feasible, is not complex and is supported by the observed behaviour. We know there is a call to the server at the time of clicking on the mob because of observed loot server lag that is consistant with a queued up bunch of requests. Globals, when they are occur are linked to a specific loot click.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

I like to think it is some guy who plays too much D&D and has his dice flowing every time we go to loot!...

If this guy is watching this thread.. can you had a skill bonus + 25 to my character when you roll the 25 sided die??!!

[Joat]

Originally Posted by KikkiJikki

Well thats one opinion but is it based on any data?

Consider the following possible scenario:
I kill a mob doing x damage. When I click to loot that mob object, the client does a call - F_loot(mob, dam(x), {other possible params}). F_loot is a black box function that determines TT value of loot and then uses some loot table to construct list of specific items and stackables to make up that TT value.

Or perhaps the function takes other parameters such as TT expended. But this is clearly object based, appears feasible, is not complex and is supported by the observed behaviour. We know there is a call to the server at the time of clicking on the mob because of observed loot server lag that is consistant with a queued up bunch of requests. Globals, when they are occur are linked to a specific loot click.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

The reason they changed to a ongoing process were that loot were too low
per mob, so to increase loot per payout, it was changed from per mob to
"right value to get a payout". So no data, just info from MA (yes, I were
playing when they did these changes).

If you are good with code, you should know of dynamic coding, which makes
a complex combination to a simple task... "EU is dynamic"... it sure is!

When it comes to globals, the boost is just another layer in whole mechanism.
It has been polished thru' the years, but most of basics are probably still
there. In 2003-2004 it were quite predictable, down to minutes, and section
of spawn, but not who would get it.
One player that were quite good at grabbing HoFs in this way are still playing.
Look for someone who HoF quite often, has a name in capital letters, and
you might figure out who that is. He refused to leave certain sections,
and it probably payed off. No idea if he profit, but I guess he did and do.
Imo, EU is like giant wavemachine, a LOT of features and actions has
a outcome that has similarities to waves...

Btw, why do two weapons that has exact same damage and ammoburn
create different outcome?
Why is loot different between mkV+a203 vs mkV+eamp13, they do exact
same total damage, but has a quite different decay?
Imo, the damage theory could be the right one, but there has to be way
more to it than just damage done. I think a lot of theories has some
good points, just as well as some bad points.

[Joat]

Originally Posted by Nor Alien

I like to think it is some guy who plays too much D&D and has his dice flowing every time we go to loot!...

If this guy is watching this thread.. can you had a skill bonus + 25 to my character when you roll the 25 sided die??!!

Nah, no need for a dice. It just a question about grinding same over and over
and over and over again.
Imo, best way to find some stuff out is to grind same mob several months
in a row, no matter how good or bad outcome is.
Been there, done that, since aug 2003...