No deposit? No Sweat!

Zach · 01-14-2011, 16:59

I have been on entropia for years as an avid non-depositor and until recently have been able to enjoy the free-to-play, but fund-encouraged gameplay. I am a sweat-gatherer. But with vehicles, we have destroyed jumpers which is detrimental to mind-essence and sweat prices.

During my time here on Calypso, I've got as much as ten PED per thousand units of sweat. However, more recently I get about 1/10th of that. Given that It takes me three to four hours for a 1000, Its averaged that I make about 3-4 U.S. pennies per hour. Everything I have ever made goes back into the game of course, but at this rate I get four hours of sweat time to about four minutes of hunt time (the real fun part right?!?!) With these numbers the newcomers are turned off and future investors of the game may never have had the opportunity.

It's simple really, like why the government grants funds to scholars for education... To get past the 'noob' stage and start paying taxes and turning the gears of the economy. Please support the sweat trade by using your implants more and buying ME or sweat. Please try jumping more instead of filling up the gas-tank. And one last thing be sure to encourage 'noobs' into the game by offering them more than what they ask for sweat. This is an important foundation for the fragile ecosystem in Project Entropia.

Fiona Simmons · 01-14-2011, 18:46

New Customer aquisitation came almost always trough Press relases about new record sales for virtual goods and a few marketing hall of fame entrys with immense loots.

Making Eu a fun Product to try out without spending Monney isnt Mindark's strongest side. I believe they fear some kind of china Farmers that dry the economy out when any free activitys become decent in generating RL monney.

In my eyes the whole mindforce concept need a overhaul. I remember marco said something about new and useful chips they wish to add in the future but thats over two years ago and nothing really happend. Im also not sure if sweating is the best solution to give free funds out. Maybe its time they think about something else and make something available for "only playtime" thats actually needed by a bigger group of player than mindforce user.

Ive seen so manny suceessfull mmorpgs with micro transactions out here and i look envious on their player ammounts. I wish Eu had a Population again as it had on the club neverdie relase. A huge Ammount of enthusiasts stormed Eu and buissnes was blooming. Sometimes it feels dry to wander in the wilderness and hardly see any green dots on the map epxect the usual areas.

So yes, even when i not really like and support the idea that brainless grinding should generate any kind of income in eu , i feel the need for a free source of income for new players to test eu out. Sometimes i even feel it was better when sweating was not unlimited available and you lost the ability after reaching a certain skill level.

Silver Ice · 01-15-2011, 15:57

This is one of those issues that can be difficult to look at from all sides.

There have been these "more PED for sweat" requests since the beginning, even when sweat prices were high compared to now. There have also been many "Mindforce/sweat is too expensive" threads/replies. There were even complaints for and against the cap on sweating a long time ago, before Mindark decided to remove the cap, while, of course, making sweat gathering less productive at the same time... I think it was once you gained 200 points or so in your sweat gathering ability, you lost your ability to gather sweat. While you could gather more sweat per hours in those days, you only had the ability to gather just enough sweat to gain yourself a few PEDs, and then you either had to deposit or find another way to multiply the couple of PED that you got from selling all of your sweat.

I really do believe that sweating is not intended to be a permanent and steady source of income. Sweat is basically something that is generated from nothing, and if it were too easy to gather sweat, or even if every player was required to use sweat, then it could easily and rapidly become a drain on the system, as it would either be eating up PED deposited by players or directly eating up PED from MA/FPC. You see, MA/FPC does not gain anything from sweat; it does not decay, no equipment decays as you gather it or sell it, it does indeed have a TT value, but you can obtain it for absolutely no cost whatsoever - you do not have to purchase sweat from MA/FPC.

While I am in no way against making mindforce more useful or fun to use, I do not think it would be very practical or wise to create a system in which mindforce is almost impossible to go without, either. Creating vehicles that make it easier to get around in without having to rely on a TP chip in a sticky situation actually really benefits those who do deposit, and I believe it has the potential to benefit MA/FPC as a result of benefiting the depositors. Using Mindforce can be really expensive. In creating vehicles, it has now become cheaper and more practical to move from location to location quickly without using Mindforce. Whether someone was a Mindforce user previously or not, they are now able to get where they are going faster by purchasing a vehicle, which means less time running and/or less money spent on something that was generated for nothing, both of which results in more money being spent more quickly on things like ammo and decay. Most depositors, whether they want to admit it or not, want to spend money on decay, and they would much rather spend more of the money on decay than spend the money on sweat, which was, again, generated for nothing, and is mostly used only for the purpose getting somewhere more quickly so the depositor can spend money on decay.

No matter how hard or how easy it is to gather sweat, if the price starts to go too high for people to see it as still being practical to buy, people will stop buying it and go gather it themselves if they need it. This has always been the case. Even when there was a cap on sweating, there were a ridiculous number of fake second, third, and tenth accounts that were made just to gather sweat, and there were floods of complaints about these accounts because they not only were against the EULA, but they were perceived as keeping the price of sweat from going higher. People wanted more for their sweat even back when it was easier to gather and selling a couple k of sweat gave you enough PED to buy a full set of pixie, an opalo, and a little bit of ammo. There was a small uproar by the noobs and the noobs supporters and a huge rejoicing by the mindforce users when the sweat cap was lifted. Then it was discovered that sweating had been nerfed and you couldn't get as much sweat per hour as before, and eventually most people went back to buying the sweat they wanted from noobs and also from the now new (and in my opinion, highly impractical) professional persistent sweat gatherer.

Because the system was designed this way, I do believe that sweat gathering is intended to be a temporary source of income, whether it be for people who want to test the game out before they decide to deposit to play, or for people who don't want to or cannot deposit, to give them the ability to gather enough funds to start making money by other means. It seems to be a rare sight these days to see someone standing around selling pixie and goblin parts or buying ores and enmatters to sell for more in bulk to a crafter with whom they've made a verbal agreement. While there is no better way for someone who is not going to deposit to get started out, there are so many other things that can become much more productive and benefit more people than gathering sweat long-term.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach

It's simple really, like why the government grants funds to scholars for education... To get past the 'noob' stage and start paying taxes and turning the gears of the economy.

Just as you say above, yes, the government gives grants for education, but they don't pay you just because you have an education, and they certainly aren't going to give you educational grants for life. Sweating is like a grant; once you get the sweating part done with, or use up the grant, then you move on to something more productive.

kosmos · 01-22-2011, 21:08

@ Op don't take it this the wrong way, but i think sweat really is intended to be for new players not veterns. at least not intended to be a long term activity. I think something should be done to help people integrate into game easier so more uses for sweat would be welcomed. but the thing is many will still sweat so the supply is going to be constant. if it was done by new players only then sweat wouldn't be as low as it is.

One thing I selfishly think about every time i read these threads why doesn't anyone ever care about the nexus miner or other players that took a hit on markup.

kosmos

JavierChavez · 01-22-2011, 22:29

<---- 11 Months of Sweating and going strong!

In the end, who really cares if you're a full time sweater whether you're noob or a veteran here in EU. It's offered as a free source of PEDs just like with Natural materials such as Fruit/Stones/Dung. You have the choice to come enter the universe, and you're NOT forced to P2P. That's one fantastic aspect of this game that has kept me here so long already.

Ultimately, it's up the player "how" they want to play here in EU anyways. If you're the type of person that cannot sweat gather for hours on end to get some PEDs together to either go do some fun activities or even get some trading done, you'll deposit. Plain and simple. These things that are done here for free are time consuming and tedious that requires some-all of your attention without any repercussions. Sweaters know what I mean about needing attention to not AFK and such. Attention needed to walk for stones/fruits/dung that may happen to pop up on the screen at any point while walking. All of these take time so not everyone has their entire free day to play here so they deposit.

Another point about non-depositors is that they may spend an entire week up towards a month collecting lots of sweat depending on how serious they are about sweating just to get a 100.00 PEDs or a little more. They treat themselves with a nice hunting/mining/crafting/healing run with those to skill and enjoy themselves. They spend majority of their time getting PEDs anyways so why not treat yourself after a long hard collection period?

Note: I've seen veterans and noobs alike that sweat to skill as well.

MA offers the playerbase a "choice" to deposit if they happen to want to do so. Lots of players do NOT want to collect sweat or stones/fruit/dung so they rather deposit. Lots of reasons why people do/don't deposit here. This is why there will always be those that hate it/love it.

MilkeN · 01-22-2011, 23:56

Or enter the game to have fun and not try to make this a place to "make money". If you need money get a job, this game is created spend money, not make money! You buy entertainment here... the system is created in a way that you cant beat the system, you can only cheat other out off peds (whit a % off that going to MA)...

So in this thread you are asking other to spend more so you (as non-depositor) can have a more fun experience in here... I will never take your side in this...

You are asking way to much off other players whit this....

JavierChavez · 01-23-2011, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkeN

Or enter the game to have fun and not try to make this a place to "make money". If you need money get a job, this game is created spend money, not make money! You buy entertainment here... the system is created in a way that you cant beat the system, you can only cheat other out off peds (whit a % off that going to MA)...

So in this thread you are asking other to spend more so you (as non-depositor) can have a more fun experience in here... I will never take your side in this...

You are asking way to much off other players whit this....

Too many people ask to raise prices and such, but it's only worth as much as someone will pay for it. I've sweated a very long time and still can play and enjoy myself. I do not really care where prices are since you'll get to a specific amount of PEDs you want eventually to go have some fun.

@ OP, Non-depositing here in EU will take TIME/PATIENCE. Those things are to be highly emphasized. If you cannot deal with 2.00 PED/k, you can store it til' you see someone buying it for more per K, or you can adapt and play with what's offered at the time for it.

Last resort if those do not work out for you: Deposit

"Play with what you're willing to lose, and you should expect to lose it"

BlackHawk · 01-23-2011, 03:28

Sweat is one of the most expensive things in game if you look at its markup. I don't understand why some people would rather sweat than deposit... Is more expensive to keep the computer on for hours and gain hardly anything for the power you consume and your work and not put in few peds and do whatever you wana do with whatever sweat you hope to sell... At least if you just deposit, you don't burn so much power for nothing, you are not frustrated with sweat prices and you save the planet. (not that it needs saving or that you can do anything to save it... but is something people like to say when they talk environmental BS like I just did)

SquirrellyWrath · 01-23-2011, 15:50

I have to agree, I depo and sweat for all kinds of reasons..

First all i did was sweat. and its kinda funny, As mentioned.. the power bill!! depending on your machine your running and what not...
it costs about 20 cents an hour for my computer to be running at EU loads!!

kinda scary when you really look at your bill and break it down.

But I have to admit.. regardless whether you depo from day 1 or don't... the skills gained after about 20k bottles are worth it when you first step foot on the planet!

tribalart · 05-14-2011, 18:19

"Ive seen so manny suceessfull mmorpgs with micro transactions out here and i look envious on their player ammounts. I wish Eu had a Population again as it had on the club neverdie relase. A huge Ammount of enthusiasts stormed Eu and buissnes was blooming. Sometimes it feels dry to wander in the wilderness and hardly see any green dots on the map epxect the usual areas."
-------------------------

Then how many have left because they have spend xxx$ without any return ?
Players leave because they can't afford playing this game !