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Old 09-13-2011, 21:44   #1
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What's wrong with eco hunting ?

ok people,
i think i had enough... came here to complain basicly.
in the past 3 months, i deposited 432 USD ( might be plus - 20 USD for exchange rate )
so lets say, 400 USD, 133 USD a month.

i dont seem to get returns, or even break even for a long time now ( im playing for about 3 years now ).

currently, im on the 10k shinkbiba iron challenge,
and it seem, well, BAD.

i hunt with no armor, using a maxed vivo t-1 to heal myself if needed,
and using a maxed opallo for the hunt.

yes, i know, its SLOWWWWWWW.

but, i dont think you can get more eco then this.

on the next 200 ped cycle, i am planning to write down each mob i kill ( shinkbiba/argo , since there are some argo in Amethera outback land #64 )

and will write down here the results.
i wish, at least, to get to 85%, which i dont think will happen.
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Old 09-13-2011, 22:16   #2
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i know the feeling

i know the feeling i was doing that amount a week and haveing that happen i am back i hope with better luck .AND KIM PLZ PM ME I HAVE A QUESTION LOL HAHA READ YOUR MESSAGES I KNOW YOU BUSY
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Old 09-13-2011, 22:57   #3
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What's wrong with eco hunting is that it will not lead you to profit or break even anymore but to lower your costs in the hope that you can get the 90% return in the long run. Playing eco for me is about playing smarter than the average person, I like playing as an eco hunter it's a nice pace/challenge for me. What makes being so eco hard is finding the right mobs to hunt. Eventually if your not finding the loot with markup & spending to much on markup. Then eco doesn't really serve a purpose in your plans. So imo there is nothing wrong with eco hunting, you have to keep in mind that it'll not lead to profit, markup will.

1) eco is to essentially lower playing costs.
2) therefore increasing your ability to play for longer.
3) giving you the possibility of finding good markup or nice loot.
4) based on the amount of mobs you were able to kill with your peds.
5) which amounts to vast amounts of grinding 1 mob to do all the above.
6) hopefully leading to a time of self sustainability ingame doing what u like.
7) and ultimately becoming a non depositor like most successfull ppl in EU .

Nothing wrong with eco just in how you apply it. If you want reduce your deposits, I suggest a pedcard of 10k to 20k for low-mid level activities, enabling you to collect large stackables to sell for MU. 1 example is having a 200 ped amount of explosive projectiles & selling at 102.5% works great.

~Mark~
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Old 09-13-2011, 23:14   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
Pedcard of 10k to 20k for low-mid level activities
your kidding right ? 10k ped ??? thats half of my monthly salary...
before i will do such a deposit, i need to kill my kids and wife, so i could sustain myself.

i think you forgot this is only a game.
and even if i played it for 3 years and constantly deposited, will leave the game and find a new one way before i will starve to death.

there are similar ** NO DEPOSIT ** games that can be played, and i can have almost the same fun that i have in EU ( like wasting 3 hours a day for hunting the same mob.. to complete an insane big IRON MISSION... ).

if this game is for rich people, EU should say that on the frontpage and also pop up an alert message everytime the game opens.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:30   #5
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Are you running an amp on that Opalo?
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:46   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dementic View Post
ok people,
i think i had enough... came here to complain basicly.
in the past 3 months, i deposited 432 USD ( might be plus - 20 USD for exchange rate ) so lets say, 400 USD, 133 USD a month.

i dont seem to get returns, or even break even for a long time now ( im playing for about 3 years now ).

currently, im on the 10k shinkbiba iron challenge, and it seem, well, BAD. I hunt with no armor, using a maxed vivo t-1 to heal myself if needed,
and using a maxed opallo for the hunt.

yes, i know, its SLOWWWWWWW, but I dont think you can get more eco then this. on the next 200 ped cycle, i am planning to write down each mob i kill ( shinkbiba/argo , since there are some argo in Amethera outback land #64 )

and will write down here the results.
i wish, at least, to get to 85%, which i dont think will happen.
No I'm not kidding but why would that be a lot of money? You already deposit around $130 per month so why not do it over a year, like $100 over 10months? It's not that hard if you spread the cost, if you thought I meant as a one lump sum deposit of course you can just forget that because even I couldn't do it like that & that's not what I did. I deposited up to 5k peds slowly then another 3k for migration then the rest was profit :P. No need to sell any kids here mate. No need to be so melodramatic either, I'am however trying to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dementic View Post
your kidding right, 10k ped ??? thats half of my monthly salary, before i will do such a deposit, i need to kill my kids and wife, so i could sustain myself.

i think you forgot this is only a game & even if i played it for 3 years & constantly deposited, will leave the game & find a new one way before i will starve to death.

there are similar ** NO DEPOSIT ** games that can be played, & i can have almost the same fun that i have in EU ( like wasting 3 hours a day for hunting the same mob.. to complete an insane big IRON MISSION... ).

if this game is for rich people, EU should say that on the frontpage and also pop up an alert message everytime the game opens.
There was a few things in your first post that I wanted to ask. So collectively you've had 4000ped rougthly & your getting less than 85% return & your also hunting on taxed land? Is this why your saying that there is something wrong with eco? You've been playing for three years without realising you need a big pedcard? If the figure I mentioned scares you then go to another game but if you want to achieve beyond 85% return stop hunting on taxed land & have a larger pedcard to make the most of loot cycles & markup on your loot.

It might seem like an arm & a leg to have that much ped but it is what most serious players do. I don't play this as a game, I play it as an investment to myself & avatar. I have deposited alot but I'am still in the black after so much hunting & grinding & I'm really proud of that. My goal is to reach combat sense without ever depositing ever again & I think I can make it, I believe I can do it. Here are some pointers. Opalo+A101 is not really eco, only reason why it maybe considered eco is because you pay no markup on that setup. But there are other weapon configurations that are much more eco in terms of dam/pec that you could be using.

The shinkiba iron challenge is about the worst mob in EU to hunt to be able to get a decent return or even break even. Their loot is just crap nothing can be done about that. Have you even read the Alice Entropia Guide yet? How it explains how hunting eco using best dam/pec allows you to kill more mobs than the person using non sib ul weapons & those who don't use finishers? It's pretty basic hunting stuff man. I use p5a+A105 on shinkiba's people might think that is a little overboard but it honestly isn't, it's the most eco pistol you can get at my level, shooting shinkiba's with it will save me a lot of peds vs using opalo, that's something I personally believe.

Like I said you don't have to deposit 10000ped in one go. But that kind of ped balance will balance out any loot variance, like it or lump it. I don't think you will leave any time soon since you've been here 3 years, me only 2 years. But if people are not willing to make that sort of financial commitment then that's no problem. Deposit your $50 per month & watch it disappear before the month is over as you progress up the mob ladder. So if your tired of 70% return or less you need to change somethings about how you hunt, because hunting on taxed land to me isn't an eco hunting style. Did you read my tips properly? I said an eco hunter will lower his costs at all costs. Avoiding taxes is one of such costs .

~Mark~
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:26   #7
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@Seventy - i do not use an amp.

@M Rufen Power :
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
Your getting less than 85% return & your also hunting on taxed land? Is this why your saying that there is something wrong with eco? You've been playing for three years without realising you need a big pedcard? If the figure I mentioned scares you then go to another game but if you want to achieve beyond 85% return stop hunting on taxed land & have a larger pedcard to make the most of loot cycles & markup on your loot.
i wish for 85% for the past 3 months, the returns has been around 60%.
about the overall deposit, you are right, spreading it over a year does give me the option to sell loot at MU, and that is what im doing.

overall in the past 3 years, i have spent around 4k USD, so, im doing exactly as your saying.
i do not sell loot to TT, but keep it in storage and sell it on auction as soon as auction fee's and % are covered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
Opalo+A101 is not really eco, only reason why it maybe considered eco is because you pay no markup on that setup. But there are other weapon configurations that are much more eco in terms of dam/pec that you could be using.
......
I use p5a+A105 on shinkiba's people might think that is a little overboard but it honestly isn't, it's the most eco pistol you can get at my level, shooting shinkiba's with it will save me a lot of peds vs using opalo, that's something I personally believe.
as i replied to Seventy, i do not use an amp.
i actually set down last month, calculated the costs per shot for each gun,
comparing the overall ammo/decay costs, opallo has the best results.

by best result, well, HL11 for example has even less cost per shot, but on the other hand, it an L item, and the shots are TOO STRONG for the shinkbiba, Too strong = one shots kills the mob, but a lot of ammo is getting wasted ( comparing the health of the mob to the gun damage ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
The shinkiba iron challenge is about the worst mob in EU to hunt to be able to get a decent return or even break even. Their loot is just crap nothing can be done about that. Have you even read the Alice Entropia Guide yet? How it explains how hunting eco using best dam/pec allows you to kill more mobs than the person using non sib ul weapons & those who don't use finishers?
i have read the Alice guide, and thats why i set down to calculate costs.
about shinkibiba being the worst mob, well, it is right, but only since Daikbiba were changed to Shinkbiba.

You are totaly right about hunting on taxed land, but on the other hand, there is no other place with a good spawn of the shinkbiba.
after all, i do want to finish the challenge (2k/10k atm).

When i did the Argo iron challenge ( next to Twin Peaks ),
I was allways breaking even, So it gave me a good push to continue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Rufen Power View Post
Deposit your $50 per month & watch it disappear before the month is over as you progress up the mob ladder. So if your tired of 70% return or less you need to change somethings about how you hunt, because hunting on taxed land to me isn't an eco hunting style. Did you read my tips properly? I said an eco hunter will lower his costs at all costs. Avoiding taxes is one of such costs .
The thing is, in the past 3 months, its not 50$ a month, its more like 50$ for every day in the weekend, that makes it 150$ per weekend (for example, hunting Allophyls), that was what made me to not care about how long it takes with the Opallo and the Shinkbiba, at least i get to play... otherwise, what the hell will i do at the weekend?

Avoiding taxes... well, i will try that, but MA should really think about creating a better spawn of Shinkbibas then in Cape Corinth.
** EDIT ** after thinking about it, taxes are %3.5 which will not make a big diffrence anyway.


**Comment** - i am not a native english speaker, sorry for any misspells, or bad senteces. hope you understand me

Last edited by dementic; 09-14-2011 at 07:45.
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Old 09-14-2011, 07:26   #8
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Wait, you say you are doing ONLY Daikiba & Argo Iron and burned 400$ during the last 3 months ?

This is indeed bad and when i compare it to my own figures for Argo Iron or my wife's results it was easily obtainable on 10$ depos for my wife and i didn't need to depo at all ( though i did to raise my ped card balance for a purchase ).

So either you are very, very unlucky or you do something wrong.

Basically it's hard to determine what exactly you might doing wrong because there is info missing:

Did you exclusively hunting Shinki/Argo on that budget, or did you any other hunting runs between, or crafting, purchases ... ?

The 400$ are really burned and not any forgotten stackables, etc. in storage ?

Do you hunt exclusively on taxed land ?

Do you TT your loot, or use auction ? Do you try to get the best MU, or serve orders etc... ?

Do you use an amp for your Opalo ? ( Which maturities are on that OLA ? )

What are your profession levels (Main Weapon & Defense )?

How much TT return(%) equals your loss ?

What is the relation between your offensive cost versus defensive cost ( without armor is not always the best bet, nor is the TT-vivo always the best option especially in combat situations ).



Without those informations it's hard to give you hints to tweak, however a few points which should already help a bit:

avoid taxed land for shinkiba & small argos. They hardly have enough MU drops to justify the tax.

Analyze where you exactly lose money, keep an eye on your defense cost. They should never be more than 5% of your total hunting bill ( at least on those mobs ), but try to get it as close as possible to zero.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:19   #9
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If you don't use amp-101 on that opalo, then it's not ecohunting.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:49   #10
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Ok, I did the Diakiba/Shinkiba Iron challenge and overall after recycling loot to the TT it cost me around 300 PED for the 16,600 mobs.

First thing I bought was an Opalo, then an A101. I tried this combination and it wasn't eco on Daikibas with returns below 80%. Around 1,600 youngs killed using this combination.

Second I tried an Isis cb5(L)+Bull Tac10(L). This was a lot more eco even with the M on the L guns, I bought the amps from AH @ 9.5PED. It looked like the whole thing would cost me around 500-600 PED to complete. So I got an UL CB5. Around 4,000 youngs using this combination retrun > 80%.

Third I tried Breer P1a(L)+A101, this was the combination that worked for me giving an average return in excess of 85%. The rest of the Shinkiba Iron challenge completed using this combination.

I did runs of 20/40 PED ammo regardless of weapon only shooting the youngs at Cape Corinth.

The amped CB5 and P1a(L) appeared to give an average 4 shots to kill a young, maybe a bit better with the P1a.

This involved a lot of running around and initially a lot of healing, but as the mission progressed I was able to shoot the youngs continuously without resorting to the Vivo T1.

I then did the Merp Iron using the CB5/P1a(L)s as above and a Kesmek Slo(L) approx 5,000 using each weapon and the balance using small MF chips.. Overall that Iron mission @ TT recycling cost me 600 PED. At no time did I get any globals in any of the hunts.

I figure if I used a bigger PED buffer and sold loot like the large number of oils/paints/wools with markup I'd have probably done both missions at zero cost or a small profit.

I also noticed shooting differing maturities could give larger variations in return percentage compared to sticking to just Youngs.

Miss rate on Shinkibas appeared to be 2% higher than Daikibas, returns however did not appear to be affected.

16,600 Daikiba/Shinkiba youngs is probably not a high enough count for some to use statistics on, but the numbers I used enabled me to get the cost of hunting Iron missions down considerably.
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