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Old 06-10-2013, 17:08   #1
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Do I have gills?

Not to be picky, but I have a question. Since this game is so realistic with calculations or armor, weapons, hits, fuel, real cash flow, etc.......is it me or can my character stay under water indefinately without drowning?

Just an observation, and it is not like it matters. I was curious if that was in the lore or am I just being picky wanting to have to hold my breath to swim?
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Old 06-10-2013, 17:26   #2
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Originally Posted by warleader6 View Post
is it me or can my character stay under water indefinately without drowning?
That's how it's supposed to be.. humans have evolved over time and don't need to breath air anymore. You can even survive in space for a short while completely exposed.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:14   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warleader6 View Post
Not to be picky, but I have a question. Since this game is so realistic with calculations or armor, weapons, hits, fuel, real cash flow, etc.......is it me or can my character stay under water indefinately without drowning?

Just an observation, and it is not like it matters. I was curious if that was in the lore or am I just being picky wanting to have to hold my breath to swim?
Entropia uses the CryEngine2, developed by Crytec for the game series Crysis, Crysis2 etc. The protagonist in Crysis has a nano suit which makes it possible to breath under water. Hence the water drops on a visor effect you see when emerging from water. The nano suit has a (hi-tech) visor. You also get the same (albeit weird) effect when driving a boat.

Appearantly MA was not able to modify this feature. Hope this clarifies the issue.

Regards, Roni

@Raxxor: entering the vaccuum of space doesnt mean instant death (in RL). But its fast and it aint pretty I guess. I think MA got it closer to reality...if I remember correctly there is a 10 second window before you die.

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Old 06-12-2013, 16:32   #4
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Originally Posted by Roni View Post
Appearantly MA was not able to modify this feature. Hope this clarifies the issue.
MA let this feature in on purpose, because it looks cool.
If you sell a gfx engine you make these specific settings always customizeable - it's not like you have to change the code to switch something like that off.

That we don't wear nano suits and the visor effect makes hardly sense, well, they just didn't give a damn, just as usual.

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@Raxxor: entering the vaccuum of space doesnt mean instant death (in RL). But its fast and it aint pretty I guess. I think MA got it closer to reality...if I remember correctly there is a 10 second window before you die.
Entering vacuum IRL means instant death - or do you think that boiling blood in your brains blood vessels is something you can survive for like 30 seconds?

It works in motion pictures, but there we have sound in space, too...
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Old 06-12-2013, 18:55   #5
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Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
do you think that boiling blood in your brains blood vessels is something you can survive for like 30 seconds?
No. But then I don't think your blood vessels would 'boil.' I think that your lungs would work in reverse due to the vacuum and draw any oxygen out from your blood - but you wouldn't "boil." Apparently you'd be conscious for about 10-15 seconds before a blacking out.

Not a long time to do stuff, but certainly not "Instant Death"
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Old 06-12-2013, 19:27   #6
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FYI.. I was sarcastic.. it's just a game.. accept it
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Old 06-12-2013, 21:58   #7
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Originally Posted by Colbey Kal View Post
No. But then I don't think your blood vessels would 'boil.'
That was not an educated guess - i was merely stating a fact.

Simple physics: lowering ambient pressure to zero will make any 37°C warm fluid boil instantly.


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I think that your lungs would work in reverse due to the vacuum and draw any oxygen out from your blood
Your lungs will collapse instantly - there is no air to fill them in a vacuum.

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Originally Posted by Colbey Kal View Post
Apparently you'd be conscious for about 10-15 seconds before a blacking out.
Nope, not even one second - unless you are an actor in a scifi movie.

Or how will you remain "conscious" when explosively expanding gas bubbles rip apart your brain stem?

Blood is mostly water - 5 liters of blood will become 100s of liters of gas at 0 pressure and over 300 degree kelvin - and pressure compensation takes only milliseconds... the only reason why your body does not explode is that the surface is already frozen.


Basically, you are frozen minced meat before you can even think "Fuck!".

I think you have seen one of these movies showing a banana or a rose bud held into liquid nitrogen? And liquid nitrogen is "only" 77° kelvin cold...

No, you definitely will not "remain conscious for seconds".
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Old 06-13-2013, 00:48   #8
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Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
That was not an educated guess - i was merely stating a fact.

Simple physics: lowering ambient pressure to zero will make any 37°C warm fluid boil instantly.




Your lungs will collapse instantly - there is no air to fill them in a vacuum.



Nope, not even one second - unless you are an actor in a scifi movie.

Or how will you remain "conscious" when explosively expanding gas bubbles rip apart your brain stem?

Blood is mostly water - 5 liters of blood will become 100s of liters of gas at 0 pressure and over 300 degree kelvin - and pressure compensation takes only milliseconds... the only reason why your body does not explode is that the surface is already frozen.


Basically, you are frozen minced meat before you can even think "Fuck!".

I think you have seen one of these movies showing a banana or a rose bud held into liquid nitrogen? And liquid nitrogen is "only" 77° kelvin cold...

No, you definitely will not "remain conscious for seconds".
While I don't pretend to be a physicist, this type of odd situation science is something I do find interesting. Which is why I had learned somethings about it before today - since I had also assumed that movies were B.S.ing the science of being unprotected in space.

Since I'm not an expert you have no reason to believe me. So here are the answers from NASA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA
How long can a human live unprotected in space?

If you don't try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. . . .

You do not explode.

Your blood does not boil.

You do not freeze.

You do not instantly lose consciousness.

Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're dying. The limits are not really known.

You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. You do not instantly freeze because, although the space environment is typically very cold, heat does not transfer away from a body quickly. Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. If your skin is exposed to direct sunlight without any protection from its intense ultraviolet radiation, you can get a very bad sunburn.
Have a nice day.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:44   #9
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Originally Posted by Colbey Kal View Post
Since I'm not an expert you have no reason to believe me. So here are the answers from NASA.



Have a nice day.
If you had actually READ the article instead of just googling for something that might look like it disproves me you would have noticed that the article is about a leaking space suit (low pressure, NOT vacuum) and a single hand exposed to zero pressure (but still inside the heated (!) suit) and such...

This article is obviously not written by physicists...
It appears to be a shortened but verbatim version of an article i found on a yellow press website posted a lot earlier...




A few quotes to illustrate my point:

Quote:
the vapor pressure of water at 37 C is 47 mm Hg. As long as you keep your blood-pressure above that (which you will unless you go deep into shock) your blood will not boil.
In FULL VACUUM, blood WILL boil, that's the bottom line of the sentence - exactly what i wrote earlier.

The skin, while perfectly able to adapt to high pressure (from the outside), i.e. deep under water, is not suited to compensate low pressure (or high pressure from the inside, because that's what it is) - there is no "containing effect" whatsoever, i can only guess what they could have meant.

But the quote above already contradicts what the article stated earlier:
Quote:
Your blood does not boil.

Now let's have a look at this:

Quote:
You would probably pass out in around 15 seconds because your lungs are now exchanging oxygen out of the blood
Lungs are exchanging oxygen out of the blood? How? Where?
Exchange for what?

Oxygen transfer depends on partial pressure, in air & blood - but there IS NO AIR, there is no transfer of oxygen out of the blood - or where do you think it "transfers to"??? The body might consume the oxygen pretty quickly, but that would require it to be still alive.



Furthermore, lots of statements in the article are based on animal test made HERE, on earth, in a pressure chamber - which is not as "cold" as outer space nor can a rapid loss of pressure be simulated here, nor are we able to reach a full vacuum on earth today, let alone prior to 1997.



And to sum that up - the guy in the leaking space suit lost consciousness after 14 seconds - but he didn't even come close to a vacuum - the saliva on his tongue started to boil - still nowhere close to a full vacuum.

Sudden exposure to full vacuum without proper protection will kill you. Instantly.



So, throwing a cheeky "have a nice day" my way after citing something you haven't even read.... made you feel like a real man now, didn't it?
Too bad you failed - next time read what you refer to, labelling something "NASA" only because they host that stuff on one of their sub(sub!) domains... c'mon, did you really think that is official stuff?

Have you checked the root page? Look what i found:
Quote:
This site is intended for students age 14 and up
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Last edited by wizzszz; 06-13-2013 at 02:03.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:28   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
If you had actually READ the article instead of just googling for something that might look like it disproves me you would have noticed that the article is about a leaking space suit (low pressure, NOT vacuum) and a single hand exposed to zero pressure (but still inside the heated (!) suit) and such...

This article is obviously not written by physicists...


A few quotes to illustrate my point:
I did google that page. I had read (before today) other webpages that talk about the same issue. I heard about it first on a podcast. I was going to reference those but I had a feeling you'd dismiss anything less than NASA's conclusions since they disagreed with your educated guesses.

I haven't taken a physics course since high school - you know more about physics than I do. Nice. But when a page is on the nasa.gov website and is signed by the "The Ask an Astrophysicist Team" I going to assume that it was either written by physicists, or at a minimum, reviewed by them. Personally I will trust their views more than I'm going to trust yours.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
In FULL VACUUM, blood WILL boil, that's the bottom line of the sentence - exactly what i wrote earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA
Also, the vapor pressure of water at 37 C is 47 mm Hg. As long as you keep your blood-pressure above that (which you will unless you go deep into shock) your blood will not boil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
Now let's have a look at this:


Lungs are exchanging oxygen out of the blood? How? Where?
Exchange for what?

Oxygen transfer depends on partial pressure, in air/blood - but there IS NO AIR, there is no transfer of oxygen out of the blood - or where do you think it "transfers to"???
Um, the vacuum of space maybe? I honestly don't know. I would think the person's blood pressure would supply the "partial pressure" you're talking about. I know very little about biology, especially the transfer of oxygen into/out of the blood - I'm trusting the professionals here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
The whole article is based on animal test made HERE, on earth, in a pressure chamber - which is not as "cold" as outer space nor can a rapid loss of pressure be simulated here.
One thing that really surprised me when I first learned about this stuff is the negligible effects of the "Cold" of outer space on humans. Because of the near absolute vacuum there is practically no material for the human's body temperature to transfer to. Therefore normal (conductive) heat loss doesn't take place like on earth. It makes perfect sense but it's also totally counter-intuitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzszz View Post
And to sum that up - the guy in the leaking space suit lost consciousness after 14 seconds - but he didn't even come close to a vacuum - the saliva on his tongue started to boil - still nowhere close to a full vacuum.

Sudden exposure to full vacuum without proper protection will kill you. Instantly.



So, throwing a cheeky "have a nice day" my way after citing something you haven't even read.... made you feel like a real man now, didn't it?
Too bad you failed - next time read what you refer to.
So it's for students 14 and up.
I'm there to learn.
I'm over 14.
Is there a problem I'm not seeing?


Have a horrible day. (Better?)

edit: 1st 2nd 3rd places that also state that you would not instantly die from exposure.
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Last edited by Colbey Kal; 06-13-2013 at 02:51.
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