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  1. #81
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    Nov 02 2010
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    94
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneOmega View Post
    Nah, higher level players complete more Missions in general.
    That would be why they are higher level players, because they play a lot...

    Really, this is just more "everything is for the benefit of ubers" bullshit.

    If you are a low/mid level player and you don't want mission rewards you are a moron.

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  3. #82
    Mature
    Joined
    Jul 20 2011
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    54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneOmega View Post
    I've actually been convinced in a previous discussion that rewarding skills/attributes is a shaky idea (or at least that the way we're doing it now is bad). Essentially, the skill gap in EU becomes larger faster, because the highly skilled players can complete more missions. This doesn't sound so bad at first, but the snowballing makes it difficult for new players to start the game, and we need new players to start the game.
    This really is not so. There are a bunch of different ways to do the missions, and really, it is completely the choice of the players as to how they do these. Or if they do these. And it starts off with "open all missions, and then ignore the fact you have these, except at the points where its time to turn a mission in".

    There are two semi-credible arguments one can make against the iron mission rewards as these stand:
    • Attribute points are worth much more once you already have high attribute values, yet you are forced to take skill point missions before you can do
    • The skill rewards inflate the amount of skills in game and thus deflate skill market value

    But really, the usefulness of the rewards to those who do the missions easily trumps the potential downsides, even more now that strength increases carry weight. Even rather small rewards like that of "A Grave Errand" can give very nice boost (and PED savings) to be able to use better faps.

  4. #83
    Dominant
    Joined
    Nov 15 2010
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    Sweden
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    475
    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    That would be why they are higher level players, because they play a lot...
    If you're going after the mission with regen mobs, it's faster if you have a good weapon (imk2, mm) and good armor (shadow) than if you have a breer p5(L) and an armor where you have to stop shooting to fap.

    For the lower-end missions, i'm sorry to say this, but if you're in it just to do the missions the spawns are frustrating. Either they are generally too low so you're spending more time running than shooting, or the spawn is mixed with "junk mobs" that are more aggro than the mission mobs (for instance shinkibas where youngs either is a minority, or on the only land area you get argonauts on you who take more ammo and time to kill than shinkibas).
    On other places, the mobs (regen mobs with higer HP) have enough density and aggro so you typically risk ending up with more than one on you (which is less of an issue if you use a fast weapn than if you use a slow weapon).
    WoF team Sweden
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  5. #84
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    Joined
    Nov 02 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by aia View Post
    If you're going after the mission with regen mobs, it's faster if you have a good weapon (imk2, mm) and good armor (shadow) than if you have a breer p5(L) and an armor where you have to stop shooting to fap.

    For the lower-end missions, i'm sorry to say this, but if you're in it just to do the missions the spawns are frustrating. Either they are generally too low so you're spending more time running than shooting, or the spawn is mixed with "junk mobs" that are more aggro than the mission mobs (for instance shinkibas where youngs either is a minority, or on the only land area you get argonauts on you who take more ammo and time to kill than shinkibas).
    On other places, the mobs (regen mobs with higer HP) have enough density and aggro so you typically risk ending up with more than one on you (which is less of an issue if you use a fast weapn than if you use a slow weapon).
    p5a is not the only alternative to mm/imk2... A mere Apis+dante has about the same dps as imk2. X1+dante has more. There are many other weapons. Not many people have Mod Mercs and several of them are not used much. And even if some higher level players do missions faster, their level gain from the skill reward is tiny compared to the level gains of a low/mid level player. The whole "ubers can do missions faster" argument is just stupid and a non starter.

  6. #85
    Dominant
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    Nov 15 2010
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    Sweden
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    475
    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    p5a is not the only alternative to mm/imk2... A mere Apis+dante has about the same dps as imk2.
    Imk2 would be better for me, because I'd like to skill laser rather than BLP. And higher level laser carbines are expensive (as are the amps). If I had a dante amp, I could consider using it though; I've used apis+dante when I've had the opportunity to borrow one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    X1+dante has more.
    X1 has markup of 140% and up. (Sure some people would say that it's more eco anyway than using an oldschool gun; but while MA technically can compensate for using oldschool repairable gear, I can't see any way they can compensate a hunter using (L) gear with higher markup% over someone who doesn't.) And each time an X1(L) breaks, it will be a cashout of 550 ped at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    There are many other weapons.
    Yes I know. I use an "other weapon" when hunting my favorite mob (trying to grind it up in tiers, well it's some sort of goal at least). But all of my repairable weapons are more or less useless on regen mobs, for obvious reasons (hint: my best repairable armor is ghost and vigi).

    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Not many people have Mod Mercs and several of them are not used much.
    I think it will never happen; but I think it would be fun if the unused were TTd, and the rest of us who doesn't have one had the chance to loot one. Or if you were willing to lend it out to someone who wants to hunt some of the bigger mission mobs (no, I don't have collateral corresponding to an estimated market value).

    Sometimes I use Sulfury(L) swords on mission mobs. But the availibility in auction is very shaky - sometimes there are 5 of them, and sometimes (often) there is none, or one posted with BO > 110%. I guess first having transport cost, and now separate auction Calypso/CP doesn't help for those.

    Here are my top professions, maybe it gives a hint about what kind of weapons I typically use:


    (As for "electro kinetic" profession; the best repairable chip I have is the old "good" chip beginning at level 6; to be able to hunt regen mobs I need to camp the auctioneer.)

    And, no, I don't have access to any (repairable) "eradicator type four". I've done almost all my plasma skilling using an oldschool, slow reload, plasma rifle.
    Last edited by aia; 07-28-2011 at 18:35.
    WoF team Sweden
    World of Firepower is coming - We're always looking for good Swedes to represent Sweden, and all support is welcome!

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  7. #86
    Old
    Joined
    Nov 02 2010
    Posts
    94
    If you're going to be picky, then you will be more limited (no pun intended).

    The main argument was presented that high level players can complete missions faster. My argument is that you can compete on kill speed with L weapons that require much lower skill levels, not to mention more time investment. Also keep in mind that MM users for the most part paid a lot of ped for that gun, and some have lost a lot of ped in market value since it reached I think 300k at some point, and is now like 130k. One nice thing about L weapons is that can't happen.

    Trust me, as someone who started before L weapons even existed and long before missions came, you are much better off now as a low or mid level player. Those skill rewards can give big jumps in profession level at lower levels.

  8. #87
    Young
    Joined
    Jul 20 2011
    Posts
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Trust me, as someone who started before L weapons even existed and long before missions came, you are much better off now as a low or mid level player. Those skill rewards can give big jumps in profession level at lower levels.
    Agreed, but this at the cost of the lure of possibly looting an uber item which just, let's face it, doesn't 'really' happen anymore. The UL version of all this L gear are made, probably intentionally, undesirable to a certain extend because of ridiculously superfluous TT value. It's fine for Adj, Imp and Mod Korss (L) because it would need to last a while, but an UL P2a... 1.5k TT value? Errm whut? Niflheim... 23k???? Let me write that in real money, Two thousand 300 dollars / One thousand four hundred pounds. Nonsense and I think a little exuberant and self-important of MA to make that decision.

    Anyhow, I digress.

  9. #88
    Old Mega's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 12 2010
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    81
    I dont think this has been said.

    But it may be the most important consideration.

    WHATEVER you do....

    Do not alter the missions already in the game for those who have yet to complete them or those who have already completed.


    It's enough of a kick in the teeth to have those on RT removed / altered. Dont change those already in place - it'll upset 100's of your customers for no gain.

    More Iron challenges for the existing mobs welcome. Snable, Exo, Goki? O_o ?


    From my perspective, the introduction in 2010 of missions was the best thing you ever did, you have the figures of how many people enjoy grinding missions for a reward. Keep it up.

  10. #89
    Young
    Joined
    Jul 20 2011
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    20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    But it may be the most important consideration.

    WHATEVER you do....

    Do not alter the missions already in the game for those who have yet to complete them or those who have already completed.

    It's enough of a kick in the teeth to have those on RT removed / altered. Dont change those already in place - it'll upset 100's of your customers for no gain.
    I think it should be pretty easy to tot up all the complete missions (as this is clearly stored in the DB,) and dish out (according to chances) any items that may be available (should they go down that route.)

    Of course, this is assuming they will implement something like that (this is MA we're talking about .) I can't see changing any of the missions will be necessary, what would you change about the existing missions, really? I think the key is to create new interesting and more complex missions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    More Iron challenges for the existing mobs welcome. Snable, Exo, Goki? O_o ?
    Definitely agree with this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    From my perspective, the introduction in 2010 of missions was the best thing you ever did, you have the figures of how many people enjoy grinding missions for a reward. Keep it up.
    And this

  11. #90
    Young
    Joined
    Nov 09 2010
    Posts
    12

    Mission brokers on Las

    Hi Kim,

    I would like the ability to add mission brokers to LAs and then LA owners could add their own rewards to the mission 'pool' for hunting and mining on the LA, with a relative rarity for these items. This could give people items as rewards for missions without MA having to foot the bill.

    Ant

 

 
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