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  1. #21
    Old Acronoid's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 08 2011
    Posts
    110
    When I started playing, sweat went for 1.3pec a bottle, 1.4 if you where lucky. In that day you could sweat 20 bottles in a single try; trap mobs so you could sweat them afk.
    And when you where hit by mobs you actually where able to get skillgains. Now it seems nerved and you can't get more then one or a few gains from the same mob.

    The first half year that I played I swunted the snables at camp caravan, and I made enough enough of that to pay for my expenses and being able to buy some decent clothes and a couple of armor sets. Note that in the day MU sucked because you got shiny peds and pecs in loot.

    Nowadays, I only sweat when I want to die to get to a revival, during mining hunts. And use it for my tp chip. But with such low prices for sweat I don't even see the need to do that.

    So what has changed?
    Well, look at it from MA's point of view. In yesteryear (the days of PE) there weren't that many players. MA needed more players for several reasons.
    firstly, to make the planet seem less empty, secondly to get known to potential audiences and thirdly because they where showing RL ads.

    Now as PE/EU grew older there has been a deviation in that strategy. At a certain point MA must have realised that the biggest source of income was not the big mass of players; but the 20% hardcore players that deposit bucket-loads of $. The other 80% or just the filling that using server and broadband resources.

    Since by bad marketing, they didn't make much out of in-game ads, they started switching the whole concept. Firstly they introduced more pec/second tools like mining amps, bigger weapons. The dropped ads, made bigger bp's. Afterwards they buffed up Mobs HP and regen and so on.

    Now, this is a very viable strategy seen from a business perspective. But it has one big downside. You depend on a smaller number of customers, which makes each customer more important. On top of that, you undermine your ability to effectively recruit new customers.
    Now since EU is a niche game and there isn't really any worthwhile alternative, this strategy is successful.

    Now, if we review the above; we quite easily see why MA doesn't do more about the price of sweat. They trying to protect their 20% top users; while simultaneously trying to get new players to play. In second statement the price of sweat is a part, but since the starter area's and beginners quests, it is becoming less and less important.
    Notice that they have handed the recruitment for new players to the planet partners anyway.

    In fini, to tell you the blunt truth, the price of sweat is one of MA's lowest priorities. And frankly, if you playing for a month or more, you don't even belong to the target audience for sweating anymore.
    If anything, the only two solutions are to stop sweat altogether or to make a sweat cap like in the ancient days.

    One question, to all sweaters (that don't use it themselves) out there:

    With hours of sweating leading to 1k sweat that sells for 0.2$, making very, very few skills along, why are you still sweating?

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  3. 11-24-2012, 21:08
    Reason
    spam

  4. #22
    Moderator
    Joined
    May 13 2011
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    580
    spambot reported.

  5. #23
    Young
    Joined
    Dec 05 2012
    Posts
    13
    Sweating doesn't cost MA anything as it gets sold to other players who obviously have deposited.

    Now my opinion is that new BP should come out using not only sweat but other items that become worthless. Maybe BP isn't the only place that the economy can be injected with usage??? So other then sweat there is the basic filter that needs more uses.

    If MA wanted to increase ME usage a new advanced TP could become available that allows TP to space station. Of course something like that would decrease demand for thrusters.

  6. 12-05-2012, 04:21
    Reason
    spam

  7. #24
    Dominant Roni's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 02 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    429
    spambot reported

  8. #25
    Old
    Joined
    Jun 16 2011
    Location
    Arkadia, first tree to the left behind the Oro
    Posts
    74
    Hi,

    guess the deadly strike to sweat value was the invention of vehicles. Who uses TP chips anymore these days?
    In the good old times (tm), when there was a team hunt, we burnt huge amounts of ME trying to get back to the team when killed. Today? We just fire up our VTOL and reach the destination a bit slower, but much more precise.

    My ME usage is just a tiny fraction anymore of what it was before vehicles. And I still have ~ 20K of sweat in storage, as well as the equivalent amount of Nexus ...


    The ways of MA are strange and full of miracles, so I'd not object what has been said already. But I see one serious problem:

    Back in the times when sweat had a value, PE (then) was much more new-player-friendly. Ways more easy for new players to stay for a while, to check it out without the urgent need to drop a deposit immediately, less pressure, more fun in the beginning. More possibilities, and for sure more new participants that took the step to deposit thus.

    And it was much more lively, more populated, more entertaining, even for those that deposited regularly. Anybody remembers the times of the old Port Atlantis? Old Zychion, Phoenix, even Swamp Camp?
    These was areas full of life, trading, helping each other, talking and socializing. What do we have left of it, these days? Healers fighting over the few sweaters, ORLY?

    Even if 90% of the ppl there never deposited, they still added to the flair of the game, they made the game more fun and more entertaining. At no cost for MA, and at a tiny cost to us other depositing players.
    And there still was the 10% that did do the step to depositing after some weeks of sweating, and due to the sheer number of sweaters this was a number MA today can only dream of. Besides, I was one of these 10%, back in 2005. With todays setup I'd never ever had even thought of dropping money ...

    So I'd suggest measures to rise the price of sweat again. Our new-player-experience measures are all nice and funny, but they don't keep the ppl for long enough. And as soon as the situation for new-comers is as frustrating as it is at the moment, any marketing expenses will be just going down the drain.

    EU urgently needs people that want to try it, but it has to offer them a way to test it sufficiently before asking them to deposit, too. The business model of EU is rather alien to many new-comers, and we cannot expect that they'll happily deposit at day 3 - this takes longer, as many of us long time players will know from our own experience.

    And EU urgently needs people to populate our basic cities, no matter if they are depositing or not. Port Atlantis today is a graveyard with a few participants of a single-player EU - who'd go there for fun, communication or socializing? Even if many of these new players would never deposit, they'd still greatly benefit the game with their sheer existence - for a minuscule cost.

    Have fun!

  9. #26
    Young
    Joined
    Dec 12 2012
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Acronoid View Post
    When I started playing, sweat went for 1.3pec a bottle, 1.4 if you where lucky. In that day you could sweat 20 bottles in a single try; trap mobs so you could sweat them afk.
    And when you where hit by mobs you actually where able to get skillgains. Now it seems nerved and you can't get more then one or a few gains from the same mob.

    The first half year that I played I swunted the snables at camp caravan, and I made enough enough of that to pay for my expenses and being able to buy some decent clothes and a couple of armor sets. Note that in the day MU sucked because you got shiny peds and pecs in loot.

    Nowadays, I only sweat when I want to die to get to a revival, during mining hunts. And use it for my tp chip. But with such low prices for sweat I don't even see the need to do that.

    So what has changed?
    Well, look at it from MA's point of view. In yesteryear (the days of PE) there weren't that many players. MA needed more players for several reasons.
    firstly, to make the planet seem less empty, secondly to get known to potential audiences and thirdly because they where showing RL ads.

    Now as PE/EU grew older there has been a deviation in that strategy. At a certain point MA must have realised that the biggest source of income was not the big mass of players; but the 20% hardcore players that deposit bucket-loads of $. The other 80% or just the filling that using server and broadband resources.

    Since by bad marketing, they didn't make much out of in-game ads, they started switching the whole concept. Firstly they introduced more pec/second tools like mining amps, bigger weapons. The dropped ads, made bigger bp's. Afterwards they buffed up Mobs HP and regen and so on.

    Now, this is a very viable strategy seen from a business perspective. But it has one big downside. You depend on a smaller number of customers, which makes each customer more important. On top of that, you undermine your ability to effectively recruit new customers.
    Now since EU is a niche game and there isn't really any worthwhile alternative, this strategy is successful.

    Now, if we review the above; we quite easily see why MA doesn't do more about the price of sweat. They trying to protect their 20% top users; while simultaneously trying to get new players to play. In second statement the price of sweat is a part, but since the starter area's and beginners quests, it is becoming less and less important.
    Notice that they have handed the recruitment for new players to the planet partners anyway.

    In fini, to tell you the blunt truth, the price of sweat is one of MA's lowest priorities. And frankly, if you playing for a month or more, you don't even belong to the target audience for sweating anymore.
    If anything, the only two solutions are to stop sweat altogether or to make a sweat cap like in the ancient days.

    One question, to all sweaters (that don't use it themselves) out there:

    With hours of sweating leading to 1k sweat that sells for 0.2$, making very, very few skills along, why are you still sweating?
    If I could deposit, I would. Believe me, I really would. However, given that I cannot deposit, I sweat.

  10. #27
    Old Alpha
    Joined
    Nov 08 2010
    Posts
    732
    MA should change space so that space vehicles use sweat and oil instead of just oil. 2 parts oil, 1 part sweat. They want the seperate economies, etc. that'd do it.

  11. #28
    Old Acronoid's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 08 2011
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by BattleAxe View Post
    If I could deposit, I would. Believe me, I really would. However, given that I cannot deposit, I sweat.
    Unless there is a technical reason that you cannot deposit; in which case this below is not valid for you.

    You have a computer and internet and some free time. Now instead of sweating; you could do many things that make more money without leaving your computer. type in the words "make money on the internet" and see what fits you. You can keep a blog (heck, even entropia related), fill in enquetes, write stories, take pictures and sell them,...

    bottom line is, to all ppl here that think they are poor; you have a computer, internet and free time. The only thing missing is some inspiration and know how; and before you know it you'll have more then enough money to spend on EU and some pocket money in RL.

    And if you bring that know how you'll learn while, to EU, you will even succeed to make money here... (although you start to realise that EU is very very poor source of income compared to about anything else)

    Always thrive forwards! Victory non Vengeance

  12. #29
    Young
    Joined
    Dec 12 2012
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by Acronoid View Post
    Unless there is a technical reason that you cannot deposit; in which case this below is not valid for you.

    You have a computer and internet and some free time. Now instead of sweating; you could do many things that make more money without leaving your computer. type in the words "make money on the internet" and see what fits you. You can keep a blog (heck, even entropia related), fill in enquetes, write stories, take pictures and sell them,...

    bottom line is, to all ppl here that think they are poor; you have a computer, internet and free time. The only thing missing is some inspiration and know how; and before you know it you'll have more then enough money to spend on EU and some pocket money in RL.

    And if you bring that know how you'll learn while, to EU, you will even succeed to make money here... (although you start to realise that EU is very very poor source of income compared to about anything else)

    Always thrive forwards! Victory non Vengeance
    I have done that search, and I've tried around 90% of the free options, and about 1% of the paid-for options out there. I've tried them all for a decent amount of time, too, but none quite suited me. Regardless, I don't consider myself poor, nor do I have a technical problem. However, I do have self-restraint... At least, I'll have it until they introduce the new PayPal system depositing system.
    Last edited by BattleAxe; 12-21-2012 at 22:48.

  13. #30
    Old
    Joined
    Jun 16 2011
    Location
    Arkadia, first tree to the left behind the Oro
    Posts
    74
    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Acronoid View Post
    bottom line is, to all ppl here that think they are poor; you have a computer, internet and free time. The only thing missing is some inspiration and know how; and before you know it you'll have more then enough money to spend on EU and some pocket money in RL.
    Hmmm. I've tried, using some virtual machines, a number of fake mail accounts and some fake identities, to keep my real self free from SPAM and abuse. I might be too stupid, but I don't see any way to earn this much money that I'd need to get me (or even a nOOb) in EU going.

    I could spend some hours per day to write fake reviews on amazon or to write lobby forum posts etc. - this pays quite well, but I'd need my time to work for food, or to play EU, too. And besides, I'd never do such - this is, in my humble opinion, pure betrayal. Nah, not with me. Could I ever look into my own eyes again, in the mirror?

    I'd rather go flipping burgers, doing the shopping for old people, or mow the lawn for lazy people. Ways better return of invested time, compared.
    This gives hard cash, hidden from the IRC, and with a few hours a month I'd get my sufficient budget for EU.

    Problem in EU is that to improve your avatar, after the very beginning, you'd not only need a certain deposit/ month, but an initial investment, too. Get yourself an UL weapon to keep your costs low, and to get flexibility. Get yourself all the necessary tools to adapt to what loots at the very moment. Build yourself a stock of resources to even reach the numbers needed to be able to sell them, then.

    I might be deadly wrong, but I'd think that below several K PEDs in value, and without a monthly income of at least 250 PED nobody can survive for long, following the skilling road after the initial sweating phase.

    I may be completely wrong, though.

    Have fun!

 

 
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