Effects of Trapping on the Economy?

[Menace]

Gonna start this topic here because I believe it's platform specific seeings instances on other planets also have the trapping logic disabled and on Ark for example, people stand on upper balcony and long range the critters on the lower level to prevent decay. On calypso it's trapping Marcimex/shadowshell.

So what effect does trapping have on the economy?

My experience has shown that my average returns hunting Marcimex Hunters were 20% lower trapping than standing toe to toe in Perseus(L)/5B w/UR125. My test sample was small.... (about 30 Marcimex Hunters taking proper defensive decay). Though it seems to me, that the system calculates decay somehow within reason (ie: letting a trox beat on your ghost/5B for 3 hrs before killing it won't give you some epic loot because you've taken 80 PED armor decay). So SOMEHOW the system can figure it... I'm guessing it's coded the same as skill system. If you stand in a mob of trox young fully armored, you'll notice after a period of time your skill gains slow down exponentially. I think this system directly ties in with the "proper skills/gear = better return theory".

I know Leona from Art of War is ADAMANT that my trapping had a negative effect on the economy. I'm not quite sure how. There was no over-supply of Slimes. No crash in ESI market. The LC-150(L) and Fletcher(L) market stayed the same.... So I'm REALLY hoping she chimes in here and shares her superior experience with me (no sarcasm there... she definitely knows her way around EU and it's economy without a doubt).

This thread is NOT about what I did or whether or not I justified it. Please don't go there.

For anyone who's never thought about it... here's a simple test you yourself can do.
A.) Use a big gun and kill a mob that you can take down before it reaches you. Check returns.
B.) Use a smaller BUT SIMILAR ECO gun so that the mob will hit you 3 or 4 times before it dies. Check returns.

The above test will prove 2 things.

1.) returns will be lower when not taking defensive decay.
2.) whether you're skills allow you to kill a mob with no decay, or whether you trap that mob... the system is designed to compensate.

Sure this doesn't make room for rare items that a trapper might get, or a very rare ATH.... but that's on a binge and purge system and can happen anywhere and anytime in game.

Also... if trapping mobs has such a negative effect on the economy... what about walking backwards vs. Traeskeron? How about running away from globsters while aiming your grenade launcher at the ground? Why is it that "Trapping" ruins the economy, but taking 0 decay by using avatar's foot speed doesn't? I mean.... 0 decay is 0 decay no matter how you achieve it.

So... let's talk.

Menace

[Spawn]

If trapping means you can hunt the mobs naked, then why wear armor, buy armor. Definately hurting economy.
The old example of trapping ara stalker and shooting it with opalo/a104 is the best example. Why should a 3 month old noob be able to hunt ara stalker? What is the worth of grinding or skilling ? What worth would a fap service have? All hurting the economy.

[Menace]

If trapping means you can hunt the mobs naked, then why wear armor, buy armor. Definately hurting economy.
The old example of trapping ara stalker and shooting it with opalo/a104 is the best example. Why should a 3 month old noob be able to hunt ara stalker? What is the worth of grinding or skilling ? What worth would a fap service have? All hurting the economy.

Very good point.

Thanks for that. It was something I never thought of.

Menace

[Sidney]

trapping is a bug.
there for trapping is not allowed.
using a bug to your advantage is called exploit.

using exploids for own gain tend to harm others (economy / MA / PP ) in this one.


I remember the 0.0 skilling on warp ships.
it was a bug
and it got exploided.
it looked like no harm was done and as that is was a win / win situation for all that where involved
in this its again a exploit.

person who used it gained ... skill when not being at the pc and no need to damage

MA / PP gained ... money flow coming in because of the use / decay / material needed.


this against PVP'ers in space.
the did not gain but it costed them
they need more ammo to blow a ship as it can be repaired better.



to gain ,,, some other party has to suffer.
its not possible otherwise.
one can't go with out the other.
its like good and evil / light and dark

[Menace]

Well Sidney... though I understand your point. I still don't see how trapping effects the economy. Maybe one must spend some time trapping in order to realize that there's really no special gain from doing so other than being able to hunt a mob that may have a higher chance to ATH? (Though I do believe loot multpliers are minimized when not taking armor/fap decay.)

Menace

[mastermesh]

trapping is a bug.
there for trapping is not allowed.
using a bug to your advantage is called exploit.

Bugs in released software are defects. Mindark needs to fix their defective product that they have supplied to us all. Some 'bugs' seem to stay in game for years, and years and years even after they are reported.

[Sidney]

i did not say that i gave a damn...

i just state the terms of use.
not attacking any here , but as one was testing it.
i thought pointing that out............
you say it doesnt affect the economy ?

i think a bunch of crafters will totaly disagree with you.

every tiny thing you do does in some kind of way interfear with the economy.

ask the rockefellers, they might explain it to you how the economy works and that in the end all of the worlds financial and non financial items will belong to them and 2 other fam's

oops sorry going to far ahead again.

[Menace]

you say it doesnt affect the economy ?

i think a bunch of crafters will totaly disagree with you.

every tiny thing you do does in some kind of way interfear with the economy.

See this is where a lot of my confusion comes into play. I can outrun Alpha Tide claws all day long.... every HoF over 700 PED on em' was either heart or brain oil (I've had 3 or 4 nice HOF's on em'). THAT is legal hunting BTW. So mobs like those have a harder impact on economy than trapping marcimex which drop 1 or 2 heart oils at best. I noticed a SOC (about 5 people) VTOL hunting big Tide Claws. Now they were exploiting, but exploiting a mob that can be hunted with 0 defensive decay legally anyway. Again... they may have been breaking the rules... but their actions wouldn't have affected the economy at all. They just weren't smart enough to realize that they could outrun the mob. lol.

Here's the REAL problem with trapping mobs.... Players see you HoF or get a rare item on a mob that they don't think you are capable of killing.... and they right away assume that you're getting something you don't deserve. Though like I said.... I coulda done Tide Claws legally instead and my returns would have been just as shitty BUT.. a HoF more than likely would have had a MUCH harder impact on the economy when I dumped 800 PED of brain oil into an order on auction.

Bottom line... MindArk ONLY bans trappers because other players complain about it. The system is more than capable of dealing with trapping. It's supply/demand. Simple. It's not gonna drop 20 slimes an hour to someone trapping Marcimex. It's not gonna drop 20 slimes an hour to someone hunting them legally either. It's gonna drop what the system can handle dropping according to BP's floating around. Anyone who thinks any different is simply crazy. AND.... every slime I looted ended up being about 40% returns after 1200 PED ammo with the exception of the slime MU. So the system even calculates MU of stuff when giving you your returns. I don't think people give the loot system the credit it deserves. It really is a brilliant bit of coding.

Menace

[Cly]

Bottom line... MindArk ONLY bans trappers because other players complain about it.

I believe you are incorrect.
I believe MindArk bans anyone found to be willfully abusing a defect in the system where that defect is allowing them to gain "an advantage".

Even if you can demonstrate that you gained no "financial advantage" - trapping in this scenario would appear to be an ill-considered idea anyway.

They are also on record as having officially stated many times in the past that trapping of any sort is an fact an abuse of the system.

You qualified, hence the ban.

[Paulo Skim Santos]

is hunting with vtol, quad or other type of vehicle a bug?it was intentional by mindark to disable attacks once you stepped in you quad, but not when you enter your car, so if you think logical a bug is something that is not a feature in game, like traping mobs in between the trees but thats not the case, and dont say: ahh but you are hunting without armor decays, and you can hunt bigger mobs, yes you can.. but its really simple for mindark to stop this, but they dont. In my opinion thats not a bug or a exploit..

Paulo Skim Santos