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  1. #1
    Mature NEVERDIE's Avatar
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    Virtual Reality Job system - Discussion

    Here we can discuss the nature and the mechanics of the job system and why it's important for the future of Virtual Reality and Entropia Universe.

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  3. #2
    Mature NEVERDIE's Avatar
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    Reserved for details and schematics

  4. #3
    Provider
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    This is where I want to see some specific detail. You are taxing tps to create jobs but I want to understand what those jobs are, what they will look like and how they will contribute to the economy.

  5. #4
    Hatchling
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    Quote Originally Posted by KikkiJikki View Post
    This is where I want to see some specific detail. You are taxing tps to create jobs but I want to understand what those jobs are, what they will look like and how they will contribute to the economy.
    Here's my hope: Items that must be crafted are made using loot that hunters/miners will loot. Some from current EU mobs, and some from the AI mobs. This will help the velocity of money within EU by having some type of items that need to be crafted that isn't being purchased directly from MA.

  6. #5
    Provider
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    We all have hopes but I really want to see what concrete plans ND has to justify the TP fees. It's all too vague at the moment.

  7. #6
    Provider John Black Knight's Avatar
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    Value is generated by effort which is a result of investing time and money.
    Transporting goods and people instantly through teleporters destroys a great potential for 'jobs' (even if charged).
    In my opinion there should be alot more places where there is no tps and no revives closeby and which require traveling, using vehicles and consuming fuel - incentivising such effort with rare ore, etc.

    One way to create a great deal of jobs would be to have different fuel types with different efficiency enabling vehicles to move quicker then with normal fuel.

    Energy cells or various fuel types could be consumed by teleporters to power the existing ones, but tps on existing landareas should earn the la owners a share if such a cost ever was to be implemented.

    Big distances planetside which can not be shortened by tps would also allow for planetside transport missions that are time sensitive - resulting in delivery races between players (consuming potentially the more efficient fuel types).
    This could be applied in space as well, with various lootable fueltypes.
    Change warpspeed and subwarp speed to be alot slower with standard fuel - make warp drives decay less but consume various fueltypes additionally allowing to potentially boost warp flight speed as well as subwarp speed.
    And again the incentive for utilizing those more efficent fueltypes would be to catch a prey or perform a transport mission faster then your competition.
    Such missions could be giving a limited amount of rewards which would be degradingly less depending if you are the first, second or third,etc. to complete the mission - or it could only be completed once.

    The crafting of these fueltypes or the production mission chain to get them would involve ingredients from all over the universe which would need transport vehicles to be moved and couldnt just be carried in inventory (locking down a characters movement while such ingedients were in his inventory) - this would encourage alot of traveling by alot of players and alot of people working together to accomplish difficult transports in and through pvp and non-pvp.

    A 'dynamic' universe needs movement - teleporters do not provide movement - they are the end of movement.
    Giving people the impression that they can be everywhere all the time is making entropia universe a small place to be and economy does not work very well in small places - it needs space to breath...
    Last edited by John Black Knight; 05-11-2016 at 16:23.
    John Black Knight
    Admiral Titans of Space Starfleet (ToS Normandie & ToS Ark Royal)
    <a href=http://www.titans-of-space.com target=_blank>http://www.titans-of-space.com</a>

  8. #7
    Hatchling matthew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Black Knight View Post
    A 'dynamic' universe needs movement - teleporters do not provide movement - they are the end of movement.
    Giving people the impression that they can be everywhere all the time is making entropia universe a small place to be and economy does not work very well in small places - it needs space to breath...
    I really like this point, it is very true. On the old calypso map there were far fewer TPs and I liked that sense of movement between places. If I wanted to go out hunting at some outpost then it was a proper trek to get there and I would want to spend several days "camping" in the area of the outpost to make it worth while. I don't remember if there was a storage at the outposts but it felt like I had to take everything I needed with me from the city on my journey, this involved some forward planning = more adventure!

    I really like the idea of planetary delivery missions (along side the planned inter-planetary missions). It seems like these features would provide jobs but at the same time provide direct (and tangible) value to the people paying for these jobs.

    If the auction is posted at twin why not have a 15 pec fee or something to have that item delivered to me if I win the item at PA (more if I want it instantly - the same as the current interplanetary fees). Someone could then be paid to transport that item across the map. If I am at an outpost or something they maybe the person could deliver that item directly to me.

    Imagine this: I am hunting far away from a TP and read in trade chat that an item is for sale. Wouldn't it be great to be able to "hire" and individual to pick up that item and then to pay the seller remotely (we can transfer money from anywhere to anyone in the real world why not in EU too). The delivery person could pick up a placeholder box which once traded to me I can reclaim the original item.

    The problem I have with EU is so many features we have in the real world we do not have in EU and so many features we don't have in the real world are in EU. I can instantly retrieve an auction item from anywhere on calypso but I can't instantly transfer peds to someone from anywhere on calypso? It doesn't make sense

  9. #8
    Mature
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    I've had this thought rolling around in my head for several weeks (since the TP Charge Announcement) and I think I finally have it formed properly.

    We do not need MA to make us jobs.. Reading thru a lot of these threads will tell you that and we are more than resourceful enough to make our own businesses and jobs.

    We need MA to make the tools needed to make/support the businesses and jobs. These are tools which have been asked for so long and shouldn't be a big issue to create.

    1. We presently have Societies with Delegated rights in running the group. Why can this not be applied to a deeds also so that an owner can "hire" staff to help them? You can have multiple tiers so that you can have managers with almost the same rights as the owner to common workers who can only stock the shelves or feed the Fertilizer. Should not be hard to set this up in game.
    2. Auction house has "Orders" which can be filled. Same could be setup for an "Employment" terminal where people have small jobs that participants need filled. A delivery job could consist of picking up some goods from one person and bringing them to another with payment once the transaction is complete. Completing jobs successfully increases your reputation rating (remember those stats which were tied to Events?) and allows for higher end jobs.
    3. Lastly, what this game really needs is a way to settle business disagreements. Sending in Support cases to MA and having them tell you how they want to interpret the rules today is just not working. This idea has been my biggest problem on details and it is far from complete but I've thought out a few different sections.

      1. A set of laws needs to be developed for business to work properly within this VR. Things like Breach of Contract, Robbery and Vandalism. (I would keep away from Libel and Slander as there is just too much shit talking done in this game).
      2. There should be a legal system where issues can be brought before it and resolved. I'm not sure if this would be a planet by planet or a whole universe system yet. All complaints would require proof so there would need to be some tie-back to MA to look up incidents. Mostly there would be fines as punishment but those that grossly neglect of the law may end up locked on a prison asteroid for a time.
      3. This court can issue warrants for those that do not want to appear in front of them. How people can go about collecting these is still up in the air in my head but would love to hear suggestions on this.




    This is not to say everyone must follow the laws but what fun is it to be a pirate or outlaw if there is no ramifications for doing so, correct?

  10. #9
    Hatchling
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    May 27 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Black Knight View Post
    ...
    A 'dynamic' universe needs movement - teleporters do not provide movement - they are the end of movement.
    Giving people the impression that they can be everywhere all the time is making entropia universe a small place to be and economy does not work very well in small places - it needs space to breath...
    The key is that a universe needs stability first of all. If our laws of physics were not stable, matter could not exist, so this shows you can't go around changing the basic rules that make up the fabric of the virtual universe. Things can be ADDED to, expanded upon, enhanced, but you do not ever want to penalize.

    Existing ores and enmats get moved around all the time. They should not be located in easy to find areas! On the other hand, the solution isn't destructively attacking the existing teleportation system. It's reworking things by adding new content that doesn't benefit from the teleportation system(new stations in space, new solar systems, etc.

    The current ideas everyone is tossing around are focused on the cost of teleportation changing as the distance changes, but perhaps the scales are entirely off. Walking shouldn't be in the picture, teleporting should be the basic transportation item, which is free. It is only available sometimes, events/planets/locations/region may prohibit it from getting you where you want, so instead you have to pay for things like driving, teleporting, etc.
    Instead of people having to work with other people merely to go to the bathroom, you should perhaps space your content out more wisely and reduce the scope of the current teleportation system by simply offering us a wider scale to exist in. Adding more and not adding teleporters speaks a better solution that destroying an existing system.

  11. #10
    Hatchling
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    Quote Originally Posted by KikkiJikki View Post
    This is where I want to see some specific detail. You are taxing tps to create jobs but I want to understand what those jobs are, what they will look like and how they will contribute to the economy.
    The jobs would be the resource gathering required to make tokens, and purchasing of those resources. As well as tp operator jobs. From what I understand.

    To Neverdie:

    First off. I love what you're trying to do. When I first found out about Entropia, it's RCE, land deeds, etc., my mind was blown and the potential for this to create meaningful revenue for people across the world was something I was struck with as well.

    1) What John Black Knight's fuel type suggestion is a very good idea. Not only would that increase resource gathering and sales, but WITHOUT some sort of faster fuel type...these tp costs would either put miners who have to use them many times a day out of business, or force them to travel hours on a Slepnir everyday which very few will be willing to do.

    2) An "employment" terminal, tab in the auction house, or simply a tab in the game interface (like Sionkiewicz partially suggested) is also a VERY good idea, and I have no idea why it hasn't been implemented sooner. It will make it easier for many of the current professions to find work (everyone from medics to pilots) as well as those looking for odd jobs. On top of that though, it will make it MUCH easier for new free market jobs to arise in the entropia vr universe.

    3) Allow players to create deeds (much like CLD, etc) to crowdfund their in-game businesses. This may sound crazy...but if this is a real economy, where's the stock market? Where's the crowdfunding? Where's the ability for businesses to easily purchase or sell advertising space on privately owned-virtual land?

    Imagine how many jobs would spring up if players were allowed to invest (with PED) in new entropia businesses IN-GAME. Organizations such as BIG Industries could sell shares in their enterprise, thus crowdfunding a boom in their operations and allowing players to profit off of dividends and the buying and selling of shares. You could create an entirely VR stock market, and this would create jobs for stock brokers, investors, and stimulate economic growth through crowdfunding. Creation of a terminal to handle this as well as a company's press releases, mission statements, and other news would make it flow better, but in-game corps could use websites to handle this sort of thing instead if that's too much of a coding headache.

    4) Auction off the rights to an in-game newspaper for a player/business/society to run and manage. A player could sell advertising space and copies of their weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly publication, and in return players could read tips and tricks, stories and news concerning attacks or terrorist attacks of sweating newbies at Nea's Place, updates and statements sent by Mindark or the VR president to the general population, fan fiction, reviews of new or old equipment, weekly opinion columns, or post and read classified ads for work and general business advertising.

    This would create jobs for writers (columnists and fan fiction contributors), reporters on in-game events (who have to travel and spend money on fuel, tp's, etc), copyeditors, translators (who translate the paper into the next several most popular entropia player languages), allow more advertising for in-game business, allow for freedom of the press and reporting on political events (if a political process is ever to be introduced into the game), and even add a source of revenue for shop/land owners who agree to distribute the paper on their property.

    5) Partner with publishers and authors to sell their ebooks in-game. I've already seen an author advertise his books for payment in PED or sweat. If mindark could create and auction off a virtual bookstore to a player, that player could reach out to thousands of publishers and authors and give them a chance to sell their e-books (and translations of their ebooks) through the Entropia Universe. If the bookstore owner undercut Amazon's percentage paid to authors...this could even be seen by author's as a way for them to make even more off of their book. Readers would deposit more to purchase books at a lower price, and authors would receive revenue from their books in PED, encouraging them to reinvest in the Entropia Universe.

    6) Permit dividing of land to sell or rent as parcels to other players or business owners. This would create a larger real-estate and renting market and additional streams of revenue. As well as more terminals, teleporters, shops, etc.

    7) Permit building on land. MA probably already has this in mind with the CLD land grab bit, but it would create a lot of jobs. It would take some time to code, but if you implemented a system like the sims, or even fallout 4, where players can take resources and then construct various buildings. Well...you could see many more competing zoos, shops, houses, and a higher demand for the resources those entail.

    Might have more ideas later. I'll try to spread the word about this thread and I'm glad you're opening this to discussion. You might even try taking your favorite 5-10 ideas and polling them with the player base through the client loader so a top 3 most popular list emerges, then encourage the implementation of those.

 

 
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