[Legion]

Originally Posted by Pepper

I don't think this question is so simple to take a position on, nor judge upon.

It's a matter of ownership of works that are stolen by people who have nothing to lose. Pirate Bay is one of the markets for these stolen items.

File-sharing in it self can never be prohibited, but stealing copyrighted material is a completely different question.

If your 15 years old and rebellious to the world, the universe and everything, I realize you can't see the result of this. But if you're adult I expect you to consider what it means for an artist to have his/hers work distributed for free and being robbed of income for that work.
If you're Madonna, Metallica or U2, perhaps the money doesn't mean that much - but for an ordinary artists it certainly does.

I really don't think you would like to have your salary, or in your case Legion - study loan, stolen every month.
Most items on The Bay and other file-shares represent work for people, work they have a right to get payed for.

I'm actually not arguing for a shut down of Pirate bay. I just think there is another side of this worth considering.

And since you're being a game-design student Legion, I find it somewhat naive and ironic that you of all people make this post , since you very well may soon to be one of those who will find yourself very concerned and affected of this, if you ever get a job in the business.

When I was working as AD, I once had a copyright job stolen and distributed on a file-share site. It turned out it was an apprentice we'd taken in at the agency who was responsible.
He immediately got sacked, branded at all major agency's in Sweden and sued. He also got suspended from his education.
This work took me and 2 other people almost 4 months of work, it affected three different business companies, it took this shit-for-brain one minute to steal it.
The thing is, once it's on file-share there's no way of stopping it since it's already out there. Result: four months work was worthless.
I was in a small business, having a family and was absolutely depended on the income from every account we had. We of course lost the clients account and almost went bankrupt, since it was out major client and a very big company.
However, we didn't, but it was devastating for all employees and their families anyway. Just the trail against this fuck took a great deal of time and money, something we didn't need while trying to repair the damage he caused.

There's a backside of every coin, and there's no such thing as a free lunch - but i guess it's OK as long as you're not the one who have to pay up...

But beware Legion, soon enough you might find yourself to be the one paying for the lunch. I can't help to wonder if you'll still be having the same middleclass quasi-anarchistic ideas when it's your work at stake...

First a very good post. But as for me being a game development student and that i soon might be in the position to get my works "stolen" i am not so affraid of? Why? Well there is a very simple answer to that which almost every other big company out there is just not willing to see. I'm planning on getting my pay for the work i've done in new ways, ie ad's for example and so forth, and i would love to have my stuff spread for FREE via torrents for example. I just want to clarify one thing. I in no way think that those who make cd's and games etc should not get paid. Ofcourse they should but the industry needs to start to think in new ways, but so far all but a very small few just put's a blindfold on and ignores it.

And also there is a very good reasons for for example Nine inch nails and why they left their label. The label told flat out to someone i dont remember that NiN's cd's they could charge a lot of money for as they had a loyal fanbase, but the "britney" crap they had to sell cheap as it wouldnt sell otherwise. In other words they addmitted to that they ripped of the fans of NiN and gee did trent get mad :P He told the audience to steal their albums as much as they could. Now they released part of their new album for free recently and also a few bands give out their music for free and let ppl donate instead.

Originally Posted by Tussi

I was thinking about writing a longer post, but i put that to rest.

There are people who think current copyright law is ok, others think it has to change (in which direction whatever).

I think that's missing the point completely: Computers are machines created for duplication and manipulation of data - any attempt to ban such activity (like the zombi industry is doing at the moment) is stupid, futile and a drawback for mankind... unless you really like the idea of a Nazi worldorder (because that is what you would need to enforce it).

What we need is a distribution model which adapts to the situation - maybe the simple ability to give a userdefined amount of money (whatever currency) toward the thing they just experience(d) would help (as long as it's evenly shared among all who participated, down to the toilet cleaner)?

I guess that would quickly weed out the crap (and also the MPAA mafia)...

Tussi

Exactly and right now there are no good models to distribute stuff in a good or effecient way. And those that do try are most often implemented in a very bad way, which ends up with pissed of users.

Originally Posted by AkiranBlade

If the site does not have a no-copyrighted material policy then by rights they should be challenged. If they acted conscientiously about their practice and took steps to remove links to licensed and copyrighted material then I don't believe there would be an issue with the site.

As far as I'm concerned, I pay for all the media I use, music, videos/films, software. If I need it enough I can justify the cost, if I can't justify the cost, I just plain don't need it.

I believe that main contingent of those oposed to such an action against such a site are in fact mostly those who wish to gain 'warez' for no PEDs, simple as that.

Yes very true, most of the ppl that do download stuff would most likely not pay for it anyway. But me if i find something good and i like it then i buy it. I for example downloaded crysis and had finished it before it was released. I liked it though so the day it was released i ran to the store and bought it.

Originally Posted by Pepper

One thing I find particularly disturbing with Pirate Bay is the lack of moderation regarding seriously dangerous content, such as child porn for instance.

Pirate Bay had for months child porn manufactured by among others Richard Steve Goldberg (now captured by FBI) on their site. Though it was reported to Pirate Bay several times, it wasn't removed. The owner of Pirate Bay, Gottfrid Svartholm Varg and Fredrik Neij also runs a web hotel, PRQ, which hosts a site that openly advocate and glorify pedophilia.

Well the pirate bay does remove stuff that get reported, but the site is huge and it's not so easy to always have the time needed to remove all bad stuff. And also all bad stuff they have found they have reported to the police but the police havent done a thing about it.



But what this debate is really about and that not many understand is the steps needed to stop it. IF we would be to ban all piracy it would be a huge step in the wrong direction and the stuff needed to be done would be a very big intrusion in peoples privacy. And THAT is what the debate is really about.