Question: The difference between a new and an old EF member

[sitram]

As being suggested in a PM by someone, I would like to open a debate thread and ask your opinions about the way a new member on EF and probably new to EU aslo is perceived here on EF by the community if he is trying to make some money from this universe by an profession that even MA stated it was legit: TRADING.

I don't want to debate the sense of reselling, since there were a lot of threads on this theme and I kinda have an impression that it is not agreed by many ppl around here.

Let's take a simple example and try to work out a debate from this.

If an know guy here on EF would decide to "invest" in a few items like an I2780 for example and he states that he thinks the price will rise in the near future, I know from experience that ppl will not jump in to neg rep him or blame him for this. I don't understand why, since this is a clear example of a wannabe reseller.

If I were to make a thread where I would state that I want to "invest" in an I2780 because I feel that the price will rise in the near future I'm sure that I'll get a lot of neg rep and ppl would blame me for being a reseller and contributing to EU inflation.

I'm wandering what is the difference between me and the other guy and why a similar action is perceived in such a different manner.

The only reasonable explanation that I see is that the other guy is more "cool" then me. I'm seen as another guy who tries to make a buck from EU and he, because of his big reputation on EF and because he knew about EU for a longer time then me is seen as an "uber" or "cool" player.

The problem I tried to raise in my posts is about the new ppl being treated unequal by the EF community. I have seen here on EF a few cases where if someone does nsot have enough rep or he just made an account, it's treated as an untrusted source and ppl stated they won't buy from him because of his rep.

Is such behavior normal for you and good for EU?

Regards,
Sitram

[A-Bomb]

This is a good point, and its true that new players, or unknown if you will, are very quickly judged. Lots of peoples names which youve never heard about are braindead and sometimes pricks, but so are some of the ones that are known so being new or unknown doesnt mean you should have less rights imo.

I agree dude.

[Nihilist]

This behavior is true in most online forum based communities.

the newbs are treated badly while the old timers can get away with being fairly dense.

- ; )

[Dorsai]

Part of the problem is that some people attempt "market manipulation".

They will buy up all that is on offer at one price, and re-list is at an inflated price, in the hope of convincing the community as a whole that the item is now worth "much more".

To make up an example, they might try and buy all wool that is under 105%, and re-list it at 113%, with the hope of persuading us all that wool is only to be bought for 113%. Once we all accept that, they will sell all the wool they bought at 105% and under at 113%, and make a profit.

I personally find the trader/reseller argument stale. People pay what they can afford, and at the same time what they think is a fair price. If someone can make the price go up the stuff was either under priced to start with, or the buyers have more money than sense.

Edit, and yes, new members get a harsher judgement becasue they are new than an older member would for the same activity. But that is true in RL too.

[Thantos]

Since you are keeping this hypothetical, I would think there should be no difference. I think the difference comes in when someone buys something, knowing it will eventually increase in value (or at least hopes so). They usually use the item also. Someone else buys 20 of the same item, with no intention of using any of them. They sit on them, maybe manipulate the auction a bit, then try to sell for a profit. Yes, it is legal for them to do this, but the community will look more favorably to the honest person who bought one, expecting to eventually make a profit. The person who bought 20 with the only intention of hoarding them to make a profit will not receive a favorable review. It may be a fine line to some, but obviously the EU community does not see it that way.

[sitram]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Part of the problem is that some people attempt "market manipulation".

They will buy up all that is on offer at one price, and re-list is at an inflated price, in the hope of convincing the community as a whole that the item is now worth "much more".

To make up an example, they might try and buy all wool that is under 105%, and re-list it at 113%, with the hope of persuading us all that wool is only to be bought for 113%. Once we all accept that, they will sell all the wool they bought at 105% and under at 113%, and make a profit.

I personally find the trader/reseller argument stale. People pay what they can afford, and at the same time what they think is a fair price. If someone can make the price go up the stuff was either under priced to start with, or the buyers have more money than sense.

Edit, and yes, new members get a harsher judgement becasue they are new than an older member would for the same activity. But that is true in RL too.

I'm not talking about wool market manipulation. Someone who tries that imo is a moron. Wool drops in big quantities. In my example I used one market where the big money are being made, not a few hundred peds and it was just an example nothing more.

I have nothing against price increase on items like i2780, angel, shadow, tiger jag and other armor sets, doa's, mm, imk2 or other rare items. It is normal to have an increase of price over a period of time, because EU is evolving more and more to a level where more ppl want to have those weapons and MA is not incresing their drop rate at all lately.

Being an older member would not made him wiser then me. He can also be a moron, who just had the luck to discover EU earlier then me. So why do the new ones get a harsher judgment, don't we live in a world where everybody is equal?

Sitram

[Thantos]

Originally Posted by sitram

So why do the new ones get a harsher judgment, don't we live in a world where everybody is equal?

Sitram

Sorry, but no. I know that some people believe we should all be treated equally, but that is an utopian wish. On one hand, we say "we need more diversity and acceptance" then we say "everyone is equal". Sorry, it doesn't work that way and it never will. Welcome to the real world. It's harsh here sometimes and everyone doesn't like everyone else.

[sitram]

Originally Posted by Thantos

Since you are keeping this hypothetical, I would think there should be no difference. I think the difference comes in when someone buys something, knowing it will eventually increase in value (or at least hopes so). They usually use the item also. Someone else buys 20 of the same item, with no intention of using any of them. They sit on them, maybe manipulate the auction a bit, then try to sell for a profit. Yes, it is legal for them to do this, but the community will look more favorably to the honest person who bought one, expecting to eventually make a profit. The person who bought 20 with the only intention of hoarding them to make a profit will not receive a favorable review. It may be a fine line to some, but obviously the EU community does not see it that way.

I remember of and so called uber who had two imp 21 defender and i think even two i2780 in storage when he decided to sell them and buy an mod merc. Was he using all of them?

How many so called ubers have in their storage a lot of amps from the amp period or how knows what weapons that are just gathering dust and increasing in value.

Why aren't they being called resellers? What's so special about them?

How would you call me if I would make a sale thread where I would sell three imp 21 defenders and two i2780?

Sitram

[Thantos]

Originally Posted by sitram

How would you call me if I would make a sale thread where I would sell three imp 21 defenders and two i2780?

Sitram

I would call you rich.

[Centech]

Well, if it makes you feel any better, there are plenty of resellers like Alive, Tzepu, etc., that have been around a long time who I still think very little of.

I think the crux of the issue is, frankly, well known and established players are just less likely to be wholesale leeching off the community. If some brand new player comes along saying 'wow I heard inflation in this game is crazy, sounds like a great way to make a quick buck!!!' I have no desire to welcome them with open arms. When someone first post on EF is 'oops speculation on the t-bird foot market didnt work.. who wants to buy 11 sets of feet?' no, I don't think 'wow this person is a great asset to the community!'

On the other hand, lets take myself as an example. I bought an RJ a few months back. When I bought it, I'll be honest, the fact that it would probably go up in value played into my decision. Perhaps someday I will sell the gun, and if I do, yes I do hope I profit on it, but I don't think anyone would think badly of me for that since my intentions were pure.. I just wanted a kick ass gun to use.. I didn't set out with the intent to leech off of EU.