***OLD*** RULES of EntropiaForum - Page 6

Konve · 04-05-2006, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam

...We keep logs so MB and the rest of the mods can see what have been done...

How do you mean? Are all posts recorded(before moderation?)? Do you save manually or is every post recorded; even each "edit" made by the poster himself?

And who can reach the record; all the moderators or the admin(MindBuster) only?

Lighterthief · 04-05-2006, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam

Bad and hurting way to show the two sides of a coin, we are just people here, moderating -remember that.
I took that personally, yes -does that come as a shock to you? Nobody likes to have anyone say you might be on a scammers side in a case, or that you might even be workign with them -when you have tried your best to be as honorable as possible through years in PE.

Your welcome to have a conversation but perhaps you should remind yourself you are not talking to a robot.

oh this is stupid i have tried to bring up what i see as a seriious point and its turned into "you called me a scammer"

NO I DIDNT

i gave a example of a conclusion someone could jump to when stuff is deleted left right and center

thats why it was important in my eyes to keep the thread open
to give those who had been scammed a opportunity for some closure

aaah this is stupid anyway, i didnt want a arguement, but i am getting sniped, i have offended you and you have offended me.... kinda a silly situation

i havnt called you a scammer, maybe you shoudl reread it
and you prolly havnt told me to get a new forum and deal with my paranioa
.......

to be perfectly honest i know who i consider a good mod and who i consider not .. but thats a persoanly opinion of mine, i am sure diffrent ppl look for diffrent qualities. if i was picking the ideal mods tomorrow i would have you on my list without a doubt

bah i am done with this, i tried to make a point i consider to be valid and important, but its all been missed.... and been twisted into a "you accused me ... bla bla "

anyway i better go and "deal with my paranioa"

Skam · 04-05-2006, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konve

How do you mean? Are all posts recorded(before moderation?)? Do you save manually or is every post recorded; even each "edit" made by the poster himself?

And who can reach the record; all the moderators or the admin(MindBuster) only?

We make a log of what we do, manually.
We have each our thread in Mods Corner which we write in, like a mod-diary almost "Locked this: -link- because blablabla", "deleted this -because blablabla"
and we bring up issues and discuss things before they are done (for example "What should I do with this thread?", "should this be allowed?") if we are uncertain of how to handle it.

All moderators and admins can see the logs, and reply to the threads with comments or critizism.

Skam · 04-05-2006, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighterthief

oh this is stupid i have tried to bring up what i see as a seriious point and its turned into "you called me a scammer"

NO I DIDNT

i gave a example of a conclusion someone could jump to when stuff is deleted left right and center

thats why it was important in my eyes to keep the thread open
to give those who had been scammed a opportunity for some closure

aaah this is stupid anyway, i didnt want a arguement, but i am getting sniped, i have offended you and you have offended me.... kinda a silly situation

i havnt called you a scammer, maybe you shoudl reread it
and you prolly havnt told me to get a new forum and deal with my paranioa
.......

to be perfectly honest i know who i consider a good mod and who i consider not .. but thats a persoanly opinion of mine, i am sure diffrent ppl look for diffrent qualities. if i was picking the ideal mods tomorrow i would have you on my list without a doubt

bah i am done with this, i tried to make a point i consider to be valid and important, but its all been missed.... and been twisted into a "you accused me ... bla bla "

anyway i better go and "deal with my paranioa"

I never said you called me a scammer, but I read it as you did imply that I might have been working with or for him. That was hurting, yea. If I hurt you back, then sorry, that wasnt the intention.

if it was just a example, then great. Lets leave this argument and discuss it as a example then?

Usually when I delete posts in a thread I write a post in the end of the thread saying I cleaned it up, with reference to why (threadstarters wish, flaming etc) so that people wont be confused, unless I so to say delete all the replies (for example in sales-threads which has turned out to a discussion the threadstarter didnt wish for)

We cant let flaming, irl threats and replies to flaming stand in a discussion, then its not a discussion anymore, but a battlefield. I know most people understand this, since alot is offended by it, and we try to make this forum suitable for everyone.

If you have any ideas on how to improve the system, you are welcome to state them.

Lighterthief · 04-05-2006, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skam

I never said you called me a scammer, but I read it as you did imply that I might have been working with or for him. That was hurting, yea. If I hurt you back, then sorry, that wasnt the intention.

if it was just a example, then great. Lets leave this argument and discuss it as a example then?

Usually when I delete posts in a thread I write a post in the end of the thread saying I cleaned it up, with reference to why (threadstarters wish, flaming etc) so that people wont be confused, unless I so to say delete all the replies (for example in sales-threads which has turned out to a discussion the threadstarter didnt wish for)

We cant let flaming, irl threats and replies to flaming stand in a discussion, then its not a discussion anymore, but a battlefield. I know most people understand this, since alot is offended by it, and we try to make this forum suitable for everyone.

If you have any ideas on how to improve the system, you are welcome to state them.

agreed, lets put the offense behind us

i agree totaly that serious irl threats flaming etc are all things that need modding, i mean without it we descend into chaos. i totaly agree and support that

but we also know theres a element of common sense too, for example if someone has been swearing, but in a understandable situation, then 90% of the time the mods can empathise with the situation and use that common sense

in the situation of the king thread, yeah it was a bit negative and yeah there were some tensions running high. but reading thru it, all the offending posts have been edited out so i dont understand why the lock after all the hard work is done, would it not be more beneficial to let that thread run its course and let the ppl who lost cash and items get some closure

hmm i have tried to find a example to show, but if i do that then i am likely to offend the person who modded that example :/

but as readers of this forum all we look for is some consistancy in the way the rules are enforced. it can seem that theres a diffrent rule book depending on who is modding at that time

and obviously thats not good for you peeps as mods, as ppl like me will get the hump that what was done in way x on one thread in now done in way Y on the second thread
and its not good for us peeps either, as the goals keep moving, we dont know where we stand

all i ask for is consistancy

editing v deleteing is a debate that can carry on to the end of time, but as mods i think you should make a decision on whether you are aggressive(delete the post) or passive moderators (edit the post) and then stick to it
i really dont care what decision you peeps come to, but i do think that one way or the other is ideal
when both happen its confusing for us all

MindStar9 · 04-05-2006, 15:42

This is really unbelievable to me. Ppl post IRL threats, use foul language consistently, flame, insult, are rude and disrespectful to other posters, we edit or delete the posts and ppl get paranoid about it?

Here is a portion of the rules that clearly states we have the right to edit and delete posts that fall into any of the categories covered in the rules ...

=========================================

"While these rules cover most common situations, they cannot anticipate all circumstances. Consequently we reserve the right to take any actions we deem appropriate to ensure these forums are not disrupted or abused in any way.

We reserve the right to remove offensive posts without notice, restrict the permissions of a user or their ability to access the forum and to ban anyone who violates the forum rules as defined in this post. Any threads/ posts/ users that breach any of the above may be deleted or modified without notice."

=========================================

I highlighted "without notice" bcuz this forum is huge, and we don't have the time to send a PM to every single user who posts to alert them that something was done with their post or thread. Ppl are to understand the rules and adhere to them, that's why they were written, and I think most ppl are smart enough to know themselves when they have posted something that isn't acceptable at the forum, but there will always be those who want to push the envelope to see if they can get away with it, like children.

As Skam said, we have a private MOD area where we discuss things with MB and each other regarding certain posts and threads that are questionable, but if a post and/or thread is NOT questionable and we feel that it breaches the forum rules, then action is taken.

These rules are not difficult to understand, so I really don't know what the challenge is here. The "F-word" seems to be used a lot lately, and that is just not acceptable ... I'm not a prude by any means, and have used plenty of colorful language myself, but this forum is not a place to do that. Ppl have been rude, disrespectful, and flaming to each other more so lately than ever before, and IRL threats were being made in the apology thread ... that stuff was deleted bcuz it clearly violated the rules.

I admit the thread is a good one and had a lot to offer with regard to the whole scamming situation with King, but as many times as I posted notes in that thread to plz continue it in a constructive manner, ppl didn't seem to care ... and my requests were done in a constructive and respectful manner.

Whenever I edit a post and remove something, I always leave a note saying so, and why. When a post is deleted, the MOD has an option of giving a reason, and I "always" put my reason down, but I don't think the community gets to see that. However, that said, the community doesn't need to see it, bcuz I often just write "due to inappropriate content" ... but another MOD and MB has access to each and every post and thread that is edited or deleted to see what the activity is. There's a reason the community doesn't get to see the original post when we modify or delete it ... think about that.

I didn't take this job for popularity either, but bcuz I have an ability to help facilitate the effectiveness and efficiency of this forum. MB asked me to be a MOD due to my history of posting at this forum and how I handle myself in interacting with the community. I'm always respectful, constructive, and use critical thinking prior to making a move, but I understand that not all ppl will agree with my decisions, and that's ok. I'm not here to win a popularity contest, but to serve a valid purpose in keeping this forum running in the manner that MB requires it to be. He's the boss and I follow his rules as designed, which I totally agree with btw, and absolutely don't understand why some have such a challenge with them, bcuz they're quite simple.

And just for the record, I can't tell you how many +reps I get for the way I moderate the forum bcuz enough ppl are sick and tired of the rudeness, the flaming, the disrespect, the IRL threats, and the overall whining that has absolutely escalated over the past several weeks and more. I understand that ppl get frustrated and upset over things, and maybe understand that more given my profession, but it doesn't give someone license to exhibit behaviors in the manner they have against other members of the community and think it's ok.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions about the moderators, and feedback is always welcome, but as Skam said, we have to assess each case differently, that's where the grey zones come in ... where it gives pause to determine what direction to go with something given the content. Opinions are subjective, and there will be those who don't agree with what we do.

What I find interesting is that I am always respectful, constructive, and give reason ... even within a thread ... as to why I'm doing or propose to do something, but it always brings someone out of the woodwork who thinks differently ... feedback is welcome ... but let's make it "constructive" ... and not just say that you or ppl can get paranoid with deleted stuff bcuz they can't see it any more ... that's the purpose of removing things that don't belong at the forum.

I'm done!

Dominatus · 04-05-2006, 15:54

Ok kids... don't make me get out my exo belt.

Mods always do the wrong things at the wrong times and the right things at the right times, and as posters we do the same thing. That’s part of life, if we did the wrong things at the right times, or the right things at the wrong times this world would be even more twisted than it is now.

Personally, yes this board is a bit strict; way to strict in my own opinion. but its also a privately run board that’s backed by MA, which in turn means, MB has to follow their rules...

But don't forget, flames, trolls, and heated debates drive post counts sky high, and drama is always the best method of getting people to stick around. Yes too much of it can drive people away, however, i personally only believe threads should be edited in extreme cases. if a thread is cause too much heat, close it, and that’s it. 99% of all the heat will die with that thread.

But that’s ok; I’m not an admin, nor a mod here. I’m merely a small harmless fish swimming quietly through a sea of powerfully aggressive sharks on the hunt for there next meal.

And as a last statement... remember,

It’s proven that power corrupts, even if only slightly, and in most cases a person’s sense of morality lessens as his or her power increases…

Skam · 04-05-2006, 15:55

LT:

The king-thread wasnt really "my" thread to moderate but I think MS9 probably thought it was good to let it rest for a while, since the flaming didnt stop. I mean, new posts came in all the time, with new flaming content and threats -so the issue needed a little rest. Perhaps it will be reopened in time, when people have calmed down a bit.

ofcourse I understand that both deleting and editing can be confusing. However editing is used when a post adds something to a discussion but just has elements in it that breaks the rules, probably (as yesterday) because of anger, which we understand ofcourse. Then we try to mostly edit out the offending parts instead of deleting the whole post. Myself I PM the person that I edit away part of the text about the issue. If the whole post however is nothing but flaming, the deletebutton is ofc more appropriate.

About common sense, as I explained my editing-routines, I will just edit out the flaming/swearing part instead. Its not to be picky about the rules, its about the people that react to it.

If you mean the editing of a post and adding a comment or such, like this thread is about: Moderating at EF then we will be discussing it between us mods in mods corner.

Edit: Oopsie, MS9 answered after I started writing this reply ^_^

MindStar9 · 04-05-2006, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighterthief

all i ask for is consistancy

editing v deleteing is a debate that can carry on to the end of time, but as mods i think you should make a decision on whether you are aggressive(delete the post) or passive moderators (edit the post) and then stick to it
i really dont care what decision you peeps come to, but i do think that one way or the other is ideal
when both happen its confusing for us all

As Skam also said in an earlier post ... we assess a post and if the majority of the content provides a good contribution to the thread, then we only edit out what isn't appropriate and let the post stand. We also make a notation in that post that something was removed.

If the content of a post cannot be edited in such a way to leave portions in that make sense and contribute to the overall theme of the thread, then the whole post gets deleted.

It's a judgment call LT, and if either Skam or I have a question about any post or thread ... as she has stated ... it gets discussed in the private MOD area until a decision is made as to what to do with it. Otherwise, we each use our assessment skills to determine whether or not a post/thread gets edited or deleted.

With regard to the foul language usage ... I know perfectly well that expletives add colorful commentary to a post, and for the most part they DO remain in the posts and threads as a whole ... where I DO edit is when the F-word gets used over and over again and it's just not a necessary thing to put in a post to get your point across. Even MB has openly warned ppl about this, so it's nothing new that I started.

So plz be careful in your accustory tone and innuendos in this thread. If you have a challenge with how I'm modding this forum, then send me a PM and let's discuss it like we did before, or did you forget about that. Was I not accommodating and even thanked you for your input which I considered to be helpful ... which was a different type of issue altogether ... so plz don't write seemingly cryptic notes in this thread about "you know who, and I could give an example, but a certain MOD would take offense, etc." ... let's be adults about this and take it to PM.

All I can say to ppl at this forum is ... learn the rules and abide by them. I feel that I have been respectful to everyone in how I conduct myself at this forum, and get plenty of excellent and positive feedback as a result, so I'm not overly concerned that a couple of ppl seem to be paranoid that posts or threads are edited or deleted.

Done again!