EntropiaForum Adspace

[Agnus_Dei]

Originally Posted by Chainfire

...Charging for things in PEDs outside of the EU universe though, is right out not allowed, unless you ask MA and they allow you to. It's somewhere in the EULA, can't be arsed to look it up.

Capice?

Si! So 711 and Neverdie should be banned.

Ag.

[Centech]

Somehow I think if MB had decided to implement a similar system nobody would have said anything.

Somehow I think if someone other than Neverdie had bought the first ad nobody would have said anything.

[711]

A few comments on the payment of ads:

I would prefer if all ads were paid for with EFDs. Before announcing the ad feature, I spent a lot of time considering many of the issues raised by Chainfire and others in this thread.

However, I have this dilemma: if the ads are too inexpensive, then people can create ads for just about anything, and/or very frivilous purposes, just to unload their EFDs. This would create an unreasonable workload for me, and would result in low quailty ads and events being shoved in the face of EF members.

On the other hand, if I make the ads too expensive (in terms of EFDs), then noone will be able to afford them, and the wonderful ad system will not be used. So I had to offer some way to purchase EU related ads for members who do not have enough EFDs.

Since Mindark has approved the EFD auctions in principle (for low value EU items, i.e. under 500 peds) the ability to purchase EF adspace (or simply EFDs with which to purchase those ads) with PEDs is not that different. Researching previous EFD item auctions, I discovered that the EFD to PED exchange ratio should be set at 250 to 1. I spent alot of time considering the prices for the ad campaigns. I wanted to make this system accessible to as many EF members as possible, while ensuring a quality level that would enhance the user experience, and provide good results for advertisers. The ad rates I came up with are very reasonable in my opinion, considering the 250-1 ratio above:

120 Peds for 3 Day Ads
240 Peds for 7 Day Ads
440 Peds for 14 Day Ads

I could have simply just offered the ads only for EFDs, with an option to purchase with cash, but how would this be any different than PEDs? If I had said instead that those without enough EFDs can purchase a 14 day ad campaign for $44, haven't I also created a standard exchange rate for EFDs to PEDs anyway? Since Mindark has tied the value of PEDs directly to the dollar (and by extension to all RL currencies, based on exchange rates), expressing prices in terms of dollars just to be "legal" with regard to EULA is simply semantics. Now, considering that the service offered here: adspace on a fan forum to promote events and items inside EU, is directly benefiting the EU community and activity in EU, how can this be a bad thing for MA or EU?

As for the ability of "Premium" members to automatically bypass ads: the privileges that were given to donators by Mindbuster do not apply to these ads, as they are directly related to EU. There will be no option to disable these member ads.

The structure of membership levels on EF will be revisited. Right now, a situation exists where new EF members have no way to gain the same permissions and priviliges of former donators. This is unfair, thus I will be working on a membership model that is much more fair to all members of the EF community, and which will reflect relative support of EF.

Finally, the ads for the MMOWC that are currently being shown in the EF adspace banner location were donated by EF, which is a sponsor of the MMOWC. I thought this would be a great way not only to promote an exciting event that EF is helping to sponsor, but also to demonstrate the effectiveness of the EF adspace system to the community. Already the MMOWC banner has had over 27,000 impressions and 180 clicks in less than 10 hours. That's 180 EU participants gaining awareness of an event thread that very possibly would have not seen it without this ad.

[JohnCapital]

A nice idea, 711, and I fully understand your issue with the pricing. However, can I just make a small point?

14 Day Ad Campaign - 110000 EFD
According to the list of richest EFDers, this only leaves you 3 possible customers who can afford this, and no one can afford it twice.


7 Day Ad Campaign - 60000 EFD
Here, you have 9 folks who can afford this service.

This doesn't leave you many potential customers.

May I request a reduction in price, please? Sure you may get some lousy banners for lousy promotions, but I'm sure there are some FAPpers, crafters, hairstylists, etc. who wouldn't mind paying if it were more reasonable.

[Epictetus]

I pretty much figured my donation to Mindbuster didn't mean anything when he sold the forum. Hope he got that steak dinner he always talked about.

[711]

Originally Posted by JohnCapital

A nice idea, 711, and I fully understand your issue with the pricing. However, can I just make a small point?

14 Day Ad Campaign - 110000 EFD
According to the list of richest EFDers, this only leaves you 3 possible customers who can afford this, and no one can afford it twice.


7 Day Ad Campaign - 60000 EFD
Here, you have 9 folks who can afford this service.

This doesn't leave you many potential customers.

May I request a reduction in price, please? Sure you may get some lousy banners for lousy promotions, but I'm sure there are some FAPpers, crafters, hairstylists, etc. who wouldn't mind paying if it were more reasonable.

Please reread my post above, with regard to pricing. The rates are very reasonable in my opinion. Compare these to the cost of using the in-game ad system, which results in much less interaction, and no way for interested users to find out more information about your promoted event (unless you provide a URL in your ad, which requires leaving EU, or using windowed mode). With the EF Adspace ads, members can click on your banner, and go directly to your event promotion thread, and find all the details.

The in-game ads are of course wonderful and reach the entirety of the EU community (assuming they look at the ad screens), but only allow the use of preconstructed backgrounds, and simple text. With EF ads, members have tremendous flexibility in creating banners, as well as including images and information in their event threads.

EF Adspace ads are not intended to compete with the in-game ad system, but rather to complement it. Successful promotion of an event would very likely employ both advertising outlets to reach the EU community.

I only offer comparisons on price to show that the EF adspace ads are indeed a very inexpensive advertising option.

As for the concern that few EF members have enough EFDs to purchase EF ad campaigns, there are many options:

• Sell some low-value items in the EFD auction section
• Become more active on the forum by making contributions to discussions, creating noteworthy threads, etc.
• Seek donations from society members, event partners, etc.
• Offer EU related services in exchange for EFDs
• Last resort: buy EF Ads with cash (or PEDs, as explained above)

My hope is that the economy with regard to EFDs will become much more active. The EF Adspace system is a step in that direction, by encouraging members to become active contributors to both the EF and EU communities.

I hope this helps to explain the pricing of the Adspace campaigns. Please realize that I put alot of thought into this, and settled on what I believe is best for EF, and our members.

[711]

Originally Posted by Epictetus

I pretty much figured my donation to Mindbuster didn't mean anything when he sold the forum. Hope he got that steak dinner he always talked about.

This is a very cynical post, and it's not clear how this relates to the new ad system.

Your donation still enables you to browse EF without seeing the Google ads, and gives other benefits related to Premium Member status, so how exactly does your donation "not mean anything" after MB sold the forum?

[Konve]

Buying EFD, 220 to 1 PED!

...

Selling EFD, 240 to 1 PED!

[Jorael]

I became one of the top 3 richest members by making lots of signatures. Thus, providing an EF service to the users.

I have to say some people were very generous with EFD's, and to them i thank once again.

Im not spending EFD's on advertising however, as i don't own any land, don't make events and with so much money, i just want more more more more !!!

j/k, seriously, i think the price is high, but 711's idea is concise and im sure he has given it much thought.

Its just another challenge. If you manage to have a moment of genius and make an event that will make you rich from one day to the other... you will surely need the ads to make it happen.

I've been lurking in this place for over a year, and im hooked on EF... Mindbuster did a great job with the forum when he owned it, but i must admit 711 is doing an awesome job as well by pimping it all up.

And yes, i am proud my work is here for all of my fellow entropians to see and enjoy, makes the production of it worthwile to the very last pixel!

[Agnus_Dei]

Originally Posted by 711

...Since Mindark has tied the value of PEDs directly to the dollar (and by extension to all RL currencies, based on exchange rates), expressing prices in terms of dollars just to be "legal" with regard to EULA is simply semantics. Now, considering that the service offered here: adspace on a fan forum to promote events and items inside EU, is directly benefiting the EU community and activity in EU, how can this be a bad thing for MA or EU?...

Hm. Okay. So it would not be okay, if I for example offer to chance PEDs into Linden$, because that would be bad for EU/MA. But a exchange-service to make PEDs out of Linden$ is okay, because it is not a bad thing to EU/MA? Same for other golden coins of course.
And of course I can offer players a service for getting real $ into PEDs. They dont need to deposit directly anymore... because it is no bad thing to EU/MA.

Rules or no rules... this is the question.

Ag.