EntropiaForum Adspace

[711]

Originally Posted by Agnus_Dei

Hm. Okay. So it would not be okay, if I for example offer to chance PEDs into Linden$, because that would be bad for EU/MA. But a exchange-service to make PEDs out of Linden$ is okay, because it is not a bad thing to EU/MA? Same for other golden coins of course.

This is an unrealistic hypothetical, and I can't really see how this relates to ads on Entropiaforum being purchased with EFDs, or real money, or PEDs.
Not to mention your intentional and inflammatory reference to a major competitior of EU.

Originally Posted by Agnus_Dei

And of course I can offer players a service for getting real $ into PEDs. They dont need to deposit directly anymore... because it is no bad thing to EU/MA.

Rules or no rules... this is the question.

Ag.

You are mistaken: Offering to convert real currency into PEDs is indeed a bad thing for MA/EU: lack of the security measures MA uses to confirm identity and deposits, less overall currency in circulation in the EU economy (and in Mindark's bank account).

[Agnus_Dei]

Originally Posted by 711

This is an unrealistic hypothetical, and I can't really see how this relates to ads on Entropiaforum being purchased with EFDs, or real money, or PEDs.
Not to mention your intentional and inflammatory reference to a major competitior of EU.

Thats no inflammation nor its a competitor - except they allow players to put in/out money. Game concepts are completely different... i dont think that anyone who like one kind of that games would like the other one - and vice versa. But thats OT of course.

Originally Posted by 711

You are mistaken: Offering to convert real currency into PEDs is indeed a bad thing for MA/EU: lack of the security measures MA uses to confirm identity and deposits, less overall currency in circulation in the EU economy (and in Mindark's bank account).

Hm. Okay, MA wouldnt know who really deposits... but thats very usual now too. I know a lot of people who deposit via their cc for others. Less overall circulation then is no topic... and even MA wouldnt miss the fees for depositing, because someone would have to get the money in.
If from now everyone would deposit into EU over you, that would be no difference to EU/MA - except they dont know WHO deposits (but they see that 711 gives 975 PED to Agnus Dei ).

But what says the EULA (8. Transactions between Participants):
"You acknowledge that any exchange carried out using any Non-Approved transaction procedure is at your own risk. MindArk reserves the right to take any necessary measures for the purpose of preventing and acting against frauds and Non-Approved Transactions, including, but not limited to, making a reservation against a suspected Transaction, and terminating a directly or indirectly involved Account, if MindArk judges that the Transaction was not performed in compliance to this Agreement."

What do we learn? Its allowed to do Out-of-EU-business... but not approved. Selling banner-space for PED/$/Euro/Bananas, converting PEDs into used flintstones... not forbidden.

Ag.

[Epictetus]

Originally Posted by 711

This is a very cynical post, and it's not clear how this relates to the new ad system.

Your donation still enables you to browse EF without seeing the Google ads, and gives other benefits related to Premium Member status, so how exactly does your donation "not mean anything" after MB sold the forum?

Oh I wasn't trying to be cynical or personal, just figured it wouldn't "count" towards anything because when the owner changes, the vision changes.

[Jorael]

If sometimes its hard to understand the intentions of someone when you are face to face, and have facial expressions and tone of voice...Then with only text its real easy to be missunderstood.

I read your post in a funny way, but i can't blame 711 for interpreting it in a cynical way. Many people still don't believe in the new management.

To me, so far, its all good changes and cookies

[Mercury]

lol I never have bothered asking what EFD's are. Someone PM me please with how to obtain some .

[711]

Originally Posted by Mercury

lol I never have bothered asking what EFD's are. Someone PM me please with how to obtain some .

EFD System Explained

[MartinMystere]

EFD: Entropia Forum Dollars
Great Idea 711

[Chainfire]

Originally Posted by 711

Since Mindark has approved the EFD auctions in principle (for low value EU items, i.e. under 500 peds) the ability to purchase EF adspace (or simply EFDs with which to purchase those ads) with PEDs is not that different.

I would get their explicit approval in either case. It'd be a shame if EF goes down because of it because you didn't.

I could have simply just offered the ads only for EFDs, with an option to purchase with cash, but how would this be any different than PEDs? If I had said instead that those without enough EFDs can purchase a 14 day ad campaign for $44, haven't I also created a standard exchange rate for EFDs to PEDs anyway?

How would this be any different? In principle, in the same way you cant pay for stuff at the grocery store with an ounce of cocaine, even though the cocaine <==> dollar exchange rate is pretty much fixed these days. Ok, that's an extreme analogy, but I think you get my point.

And even if you do it for dollars, instead of PEDs, that still isn't allowed without permission from MA according to the EULA (IIRC).

Since Mindark has tied the value of PEDs directly to the dollar (and by extension to all RL currencies, based on exchange rates), expressing prices in terms of dollars just to be "legal" with regard to EULA is simply semantics. Now, considering that the service offered here: adspace on a fan forum to promote events and items inside EU, is directly benefiting the EU community and activity in EU, how can this be a bad thing for MA or EU?

I think you've seen a sufficient amount of MA's actions by now to know that MA does not care one bit about which might or might not be good and/or bad for the community, so I'll just write that quote off as being uncharacteristically naive.

As for the ability of "Premium" members to automatically bypass ads: the privileges that were given to donators by Mindbuster do not apply to these ads, as they are directly related to EU. There will be no option to disable these member ads.

That's real nice of you. The one problem here is that I gave a little bit of cash to MindBuster because I thought he deserved it for operating this forum, and as a gigantic added bonus to disable ads. I don't know about you, but probably my primary incentive to pay for stuff online is to get rid of those damned ads (you really don't want to know how many sites I pay cash every month to not see those things). There is not a single other feature on EF that 'premium members' get extra for in comparison to non premium member I care a rats ass about. So yes, honestly, you putting ads back onto my screen does piss me off a bit. Even if it is with all good intentions, related to EU, etc. Furthermore, I fail to see why it being EU related makes a difference, at all.

Ofcourse, it is your forum now, and I will not pretend to have any special priviliges because I donated to MB. It is your good righ to change these things, but that does not mean I don't disagree with them with all my heart.

The structure of membership levels on EF will be revisited. Right now, a situation exists where new EF members have no way to gain the same permissions and priviliges of former donators. This is unfair, thus I will be working on a membership model that is much more fair to all members of the EF community, and which will reflect relative support of EF.

If the current situation is unfair, by all means try changing it for the better, you got my vote there. I however disagree with making it less fair to group A to make it more fair to group B. Yes, I know, balancing that properly may quite possibly be totally impossible, even in theory

Finally, the ads for the MMOWC that are currently being shown in the EF adspace banner location were donated by EF, which is a sponsor of the MMOWC. I thought this would be a great way not only to promote an exciting event that EF is helping to sponsor, but also to demonstrate the effectiveness of the EF adspace system to the community. Already the MMOWC banner has had over 27,000 impressions and 180 clicks in less than 10 hours. That's 180 EU participants gaining awareness of an event thread that very possibly would have not seen it without this ad.

Well one thing's for sure, you do know how to do the propaganda thing! I'd almost call it clever how you almost didn't fool me into thinking this piece of quote is is actually to give traffic to ND, while all clues point in the direction of it being a particularly shameless plug for the ad system you just implemented.

As a final note, I know I might be a bit of an a-hole, 711, hell I know I've given you more -reps in two weeks than all other people on this forum combined since I joined a year ago (and I don't -rep lightly). Don't take it personally, not meant that way, I think you can guess my reasoning, ultimately.

[711]

Originally Posted by Chainfire

I would get their explicit approval in either case. It'd be a shame if EF goes down because of it because you didn't.

Marco has approved EFD auctions for EU items over 1.5 years ago:

No more selling items/peds for IRL cash !!!

Dozens of EFD auctions have taken place since then, and Marco is fully aware of such.

As for Mindark making EF "go down" that is not a concern in any case.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

How would this be any different? In principle, in the same way you cant pay for stuff at the grocery store with an ounce of cocaine, even though the cocaine <==> dollar exchange rate is pretty much fixed these days. Ok, that's an extreme analogy, but I think you get my point.

No, I don't get your point. Not only is cocaine illegal nearly everywhere on earth, it is not a form of currency. EFDs, PEDs, dollars are currencies, and not illegal. I fail to see the connection.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

And even if you do it for dollars, instead of PEDs, that still isn't allowed without permission from MA according to the EULA (IIRC).

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean to state that Mindark can prevent me from selling ads for dollars on a privately-owned website? On what basis do you make this claim? If that were true, then the Google ads would also apply, since EF is "selling" ads to Google. Clearly you are mistaken here, and I highly doubt even MA would agree with you.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

I think you've seen a sufficient amount of MA's actions by now to know that MA does not care one bit about which might or might not be good and/or bad for the community, so I'll just write that quote off as being uncharacteristically naive.

I guess you are making reference to Mindark's unwillingness to officially support the use of PEAss? I agree that PEAss is a useful tool for the EU community, but that does not mean that I agree with your statement that "MA does not care one bit about which might or might not be good and/or bad for the community" In fact, I would disagree strongly with you. I believe they care very much, even if some of their actions may not appear that way. Please do not attribute postions to me that I do not share. In any case, when I said "how can the EF ads be bad thing for the community" I was not seeking Mindark's approval, but rather the approval of the EF community.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

That's real nice of you. The one problem here is that I gave a little bit of cash to MindBuster because I thought he deserved it for operating this forum, and as a gigantic added bonus to disable ads. I don't know about you, but probably my primary incentive to pay for stuff online is to get rid of those damned ads (you really don't want to know how many sites I pay cash every month to not see those things). There is not a single other feature on EF that 'premium members' get extra for in comparison to non premium member I care a rats ass about. So yes, honestly, you putting ads back onto my screen does piss me off a bit. Even if it is with all good intentions, related to EU, etc. Furthermore, I fail to see why it being EU related makes a difference, at all.

I would imagine EU-related advertisements would be less interesting to you since you no longer play EU. However, for the overwhelming majority of members of this forum, who continue to play EU, these ads highlighting EU events, competitions and such will likely be quite interesting and informative.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

Ofcourse, it is your forum now, and I will not pretend to have any special priviliges because I donated to MB. It is your good righ to change these things, but that does not mean I don't disagree with them with all my heart.
If the current situation is unfair, by all means try changing it for the better, you got my vote there. I however disagree with making it less fair to group A to make it more fair to group B. Yes, I know, balancing that properly may quite possibly be totally impossible, even in theory

Any changes relating to forum membership groups, permissions, privileges etc. will be very carefully considered and implemented in a way that benefits the EF community as a whole in the fairest way possible. I agree that it is impossible to make everyone happy with any type of change or progress. That is the nature of large communities, especially one as passionate as this one.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

Well one thing's for sure, you do know how to do the propaganda thing! I'd almost call it clever how you almost didn't fool me into thinking this piece of quote is is actually to give traffic to ND, while all clues point in the direction of it being a particularly shameless plug for the ad system you just implemented.

It was both to promote the MMOWC (of which EF is a sponsor), and a good way to demonstrate the effectiveness of the EF ad system. I clearly stated this in two earlier posts in this thread, so I really don't see how it is fair of you to claim I was trying to "fool" anyone, or propagandize anything.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

As a final note, I know I might be a bit of an a-hole, 711, hell I know I've given you more -reps in two weeks than all other people on this forum combined since I joined a year ago (and I don't -rep lightly).

Looking in my reputation history for the last 6 months, you have left me one negative reputation comment (in fact, only 1 rep total) relating to my claim that the reason the rep button does not work properly is the fault of Firefox, rather than the forum javascript code. I still claim this is the case, and if you like, I can send you some links where many software developers say the same. We can continue that via PM if you like, so as not to take this thread off-topic.

Originally Posted by Chainfire

Don't take it personally, not meant that way, I think you can guess my reasoning, ultimately.

No, sorry I cannot guess your reasons. Please make them clear.