Mall Sale Nets MindArk $180,000 - Page 4

Darkscorp · 12-31-2006, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmus

In the real world, it's called Wall Street and venture capital. High risks/high rewards that some people are willing/calculating the risks on. When they loose, we usually hear "they deserved it". When they win, we usually hear "opportunistic" ... or worse.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why some people have so much anger toward high risk investors and see all sorts of evil manipulation. But see nothing wrong with commodities and options markets in the real world. Many real world markets are controlled and manipulated, and not always for the worse. The oldest example still in effect today is the diamond market, the biggest is the oil market controlled by a cartel of producing countries. Others includes odd things like ... trading cards!

I don't hear these people whine when they make a nice profit on their loot

The anger/disapproval is based upon fear..fear that the sanctity of what was once safe will be forever changed,fear that what was once comfortable will be lost....fear that being complacent will no longer cut it and that you will be left by the wayside.

There is nothing more constant than change,and as in any universe,virtual or real,change happens. Some people stand idly by hoping changes will happen while others make it happen.

Doer · 12-31-2006, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmus

In the real world, it's called Wall Street and venture capital. High risks/high rewards that some people are willing/calculating the risks on. When they loose, we usually hear "they deserved it". When they win, we usually hear "opportunistic" ... or worse.

I'm sorry, but i don't quite see why your post cites mine. I might have an overdeveloped sense of "fair" and an unnatural abhorrence of the underhanded, but i assure you i am not "seeing" all sorts of evil manipulations that aren't, erm, "evil manipulations". Belittling the viewpoint of those that don't like unethical behavior or battering down strawperson generalizations of their viewpoint isn't a sound counterstatement of what i was voicing.

Quote:

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why some people have so much anger toward high risk investors and see all sorts of evil manipulation. But see nothing wrong with commodities and options markets in the real world. Many real world markets are controlled and manipulated, and not always for the worse. The oldest example still in effect today is the diamond market, the biggest is the oil market controlled by a cartel of producing countries. Others includes odd things like ... trading cards!

I don't hear these people whine when they make a nice profit on their loot

Investing on the market can be a way to allow new and wonderful technologies and services to get to market, to show a vote of confidence in the methods of a company; it can also be a way to make money without regards to the externalities of the company's behavior. While i do invest in companies that bring useful and productive things to light, i don't buy diamonds, i consume as little petroleum as is practicable (and am active in promoting and developing alternatives), and i never, ever... trade cards(?

); i voted yes as a representative in a student government motion to divest from Sudan; i investigate the politicians i vote for to make sure they're at least the "lesser of two evils"; and yes, i would and do vote with my money against any company convicted of unethical opportunism by not holding stock in (or patronizing) that company.

I'm not sure in what way or by what stretch of the imagination that disqualifies me from being happy when i am successful in playing a game/existing in a universe (that by its very nature is a competition) by ways that don't involve manipulating the market, exploiting limitations and defects, or doing anything else that would be considered unethical IRL.

Getting back to the subject at hand, if you'll read the Wikipedia discussion of the tactics and business practices of the Anshe Chung company, you'll see alleged behaviors that are not only unsportsmanlike and exploitative of limitations or defects (AKA bugs) of virtual universes, but border very closely on illegal were similar things done IRL. To be fair, their own public face (their webpage) presents a different philosophy that does sound like just the kind of investor we need in EU: it sparkles better than any glossy bit of PR MA has whipped up over the years. My point in the previous post was not very well stated; we've had enough high-publicity events (from trapping to botting to auction exploits) this year without the participation of a team that may specialize in finding and using just such exploits to make a fortune at the expense of other virtual citizens. For my feelings on that possibility, i refer you to the quote in my sig.

Erasmus · 12-31-2006, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doer

Getting back to the subject at hand, if you'll read the Wikipedia discussion of the tactics and business practices of the Anshe Chung company, you'll see alleged behaviors that are not only unsportsmanlike and exploitative of limitations or defects (AKA bugs) of virtual universes, but border very closely on illegal were similar things done IRL. To be fair, their own public face (their webpage) presents a different philosophy that does sound like just the kind of investor we need in EU: it sparkles better than any glossy bit of PR MA has whipped up over the years. My point in the previous post was not very well stated; we've had enough high-publicity events (from trapping to botting to auction exploits) this year without the participation of a team that may specialize in finding and using just such exploits to make a fortune at the expense of other virtual citizens. For my feelings on that possibility, i refer you to the quote in my sig.

versus your initial post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doer

(From the other discussion on this)
The An She team is basically the ultimate market manipulator/reseller. While it is nice to see EU get recognized by the outside, i'm not sure it's a good thing that such an entity sees investment value in EU. All that says to me is, "We see sufficient loopholes in this universe to manipulate the market profitably."
Just some food for thought.

Thank you for restating more completely your view. Your first post stated, without reservation that she is a manipulator/reseller. Your second post reflects the fact that those allegations are hearsay, true or not.

My problem is the generalization that investors are "bad" people. There are good and bad people in every business segment, conservative or high risk. So far on EU we have been lucky to have had ethical investors, and it looks like we got lucky again. But there is nothing to prevent less ethical investors to take an interest in EU, that's also part of the real economy.

I have never met An She or her husband and have had no dealing with her company, but it is blatantly obvious that the wiki entry is classic wiki bashing and, in addition, is also in contrast with the mostly positive opinions I have heard, first hand, from people who have had dealings with her. Keeping in mind that she DOES NOT control a market, but does offer a range of added value that others have not offered, at least not in the same scale or with the same effectiveness. That's hardly manipulation.

My point was mostly that, up until this auction, EU was a village without any outside point of reference. We now have the first one, which is bound to bring more. That will have more significance for the future of EU than the mall event in itself.

The uncertainty of future investment has been reduced and EU has gained credibility.

Doer · 12-31-2006, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmus

My problem is the generalization that investors are "bad" people.

But i never made that generalization!

I do not know the Anshe team. You have to wonder what kind of tactics they have used that have gotten them disliked enough to have a wiki-bashing party. Some of the accusations should be easy to verify (eg the exploit of their own flavor of the auction bug), but to be honest knowing or not knowing doesn't really make any difference to me, right now, anyway. If they do make a push into EU i will evaluate more carefully before patronizing their services, as everyone should do already for current capitalists (for example in deciding which LAs to hunt on) -- who have no shortage of their own scandal stories. Sadly, MA doesn't make a lot of stuff known to us, so it is hard to police by citizen action; nevertheless, i am reminded of the Marco quote in Dub's signature that we enable heinous resellers by our own actions: just don't go blindly forward, one way or another, is all.

One thing is certain: the EU avatar Anshe helped to raise the final auction price of the malls, and for that we all benefit. Whether we like the malls or not, every large MA sale in EU is another recycling of all those legacy peds (and new money) into the "pool" that is MA and potential publicity event for outside recognition.

Gvar · 01-03-2007, 17:47

I'd just like to know when the mall shops are going up for sale.....been nearly a week and they still havent hit the auction yet

Jimmy B · 01-03-2007, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gvar

I'd just like to know when the mall shops are going up for sale.....been nearly a week and they still havent hit the auction yet

Many have been sold already. They're not being sold on auction as far as I know, generally either by direct contact with the owner (neomaven, robroy, eps) in EU or, for instance, on this forum.

Do a search here, there are threads on it already. I think the mall owners are generally expecting some input from potential buyers on how they plan to run their shops to:

(i) make sure the shop will be appropriate,
(ii) make sure its going to be well run and well stocked,
(iiI) avoid resellers getting their hands on apts - partly to ensure (i), (ii)

plandon · 01-04-2007, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gvar

I'd just like to know when the mall shops are going up for sale.....been nearly a week and they still havent hit the auction yet

The first floor at Twin has already sold out.

Gvar · 01-05-2007, 18:32

Oic, well thats cool, but pretty much rules out any chance of the average joe aquiring a mall shop.

As for adding to the loot pool, i'll believe that when i start getting decent loots.