Silverfox, a Bridge Investor

[Skam]

Originally Posted by il

dunno all this bridge stuff is there not another thread on it :P

Investing in MindArk and Project Entropia

[wanda]

Originally Posted by original post

"Exactly", Milkey responds "Bringing back things like hogglos, warlocks, behemoths..." The rumors are that Mindark are saving them for events, I say. "This island could be a event!" silverfox says and blinks. "I want it to be many things" Milkey says "I want it to be a thriving commerce, shops all around, homes.. and offcourse -the perfect huntinggrounds! This is just 5% of what I have in mind"
-so will this be player owned? "Player owned and operated!" milkey says, and smiles.

I ask if Bridge will have anything to do with it. "No, bridge has no direct interest in the game itself.

Originally Posted by silverfox

1. Bridge people investing in MA will have nothing to say in PE.

Doesn't the statement below contradict what you are saying? Or is this something different?

Originally Posted by Jan Timkrans

We have plans to let people do business within the world of Entropia and take commission from that.

[gurkha]

Heh, let's take a step back here people...

What Bridge is doing is completely legal, and undeniably good for Mindark, Project Entropia, and us as a whole, they are simply a means for Mindark to obtain capital to expand and develop, this is a perfectly normal practice that every growing business does, expansion will be postive for us, the consumers, and MA, as well as Bridge and their investors, for if successful, their shares will go up in value in correlation to MA's net worth.

We, as consumers have no right to question MA's financial decisions and partners, as Svetlena said, we're just customers, but the way some people put a large portion of their hard earned money in makes us, quite reasonably, think we are in part investors in Mindark and Project Entropia, in part we are, if PE expands market price for items will go up, meaning our items are worth more than what we bought them for, profit, the whole aim of investment, but this does not give us a right to question and challenge, and frankly discourage any possible investors, it hurts them and us.

I accept that Bridge is not your run of the mill financial institution, and that we've got a right to ask questions, but MA's investor's are MA's investors, and this has all got pretty much out of control...

Marco's answers on the whole (save one) have been satisfactory, and as he said, it would be a breach of confidence for him to disclose workings between him and Bridge, so it's not his fault he will not answer some of our questions, for he cannot.

Personally, I think that this should of not been so exposed to us players, for we do not have a say in it, and cannot change anything, as you have all seen, it just stirs up trouble.

[gurkha]

Wanda, quite frankly, what Milkey wants and thinks doesn't affect anything, he has no say in it, he's simply the mentor of somebody looking at a prospective investment, he's a nobody...

[Optima]

Originally Posted by Dirk

Knuckles, do you happen to have a translation of this available?

Translation: (Mind you i dont do this for a living, so if anything is uncorrect please let me know so i can edit
"There has been a policereport filed on Bridgegroup"
By Cecilia Johansson
Updated 26th of july 2005 16.03

The lotteryinspection has reported Bridge group to the police. Authorities claim that the company is involved in illegal pyramid activity - totally unfounded says the companys lawyer Lars Felth.

Sydsvenskan has previously told about the investmentcompany Bridge that brings small savers into paying a membership fee of up to 16900 SEK to be able to do nice venturedeals with good profit in nonstockpublished companies.

So far no actual stockdeals have been made. Instead members can become so called "agents" and make money by recruiting new members for Bridge. And thats what the lotterycommision is turning against in its accusations. A company where members can only make money from recruiting new members is an illegal pyramidscheme and therefore a crime against the lotterylaw (Optima: in sweden i guess, no idea what that law contains).

- There is an almost unlimited amount of networkingarragements like this. So we only look at the most obvious. Through later years we have done about 5-6 policereports, says Peter Alling, lawyer at the Lottery-inspection (Optima: again freely translated name of an government agency...)

Kjell Nilsson, known corporate leader and also previous leader of "trelleborgconcernen" works as an advisor for Bridge. He thinks the policereport is wrong but wont go into the reasons why.
How does the policereport affect your commitment in the company?
- I have nothing more to add, I am not Bridge.
But you work as their advisor?
- Theres one hell of a difference isn't there, says Kjell Nilsson and hangs up.

Bridge group has their main headquarters in the taxparadise of Belize in central America. In Sweden the company is represented by GICM Scandinavia and CEO Mats Jäderberg. He wont comment the policereport by refers to the legal council of the company:
- I see the accusations as both wrong and unfounded. Its based on information from members that made their own homepages and sent mail with information that doesnt correspond to the companys view, says Lars Felth who is a lawyer and acts for the company.

His biggest objections go on the fact that the first stock-deal (Optima: May be more correct word for that...) is on the move and that the company therefor cant be counted as a pyramidscam. First prospect is expected complete in august. At that time members of Bridge are expected to be offered newly emitted stocks in the Gothenburg based company Mindark PE for a total of 30 million SEK. The original Mindark went bankrupt during spring 2003 and a new company took over the original bankrupt companys affairs.

[Etopia]

we all think its good that som investor come and put money in MA.
noone is against that.

but when that investor smell like scamer , and his business looks like scam... as player and in som way , investor my self i dont like that.
also i dont like when i read news paper where its write on the article : MA investor , police , pyramid sheme.
i say its not a good advertising.

i am not against investor , and i am not against ritch people who put money in the game .
i am happy som do that , and i would love more investor come and put money in MA to help them to develop.

but keep in mind MA is weak , and based on player trust.
who will deposit if its write evrywhere that MA work with that kind of people.

i would love som people go to the site.
i havent keep login and pass ... i tryed made other acount but you must be send by an enrolling sponsor.
i would love som go there , make som screen shoot and post it.
it smell the scam so mutch....
since when a serious investing system , sell you info to explain how to invest when they got nothing to invest in...
i never see any investing system that claim to be open to low money investor that cost 600 to 2500 $ fee only to get access.

[The Mighty]

Yada Yada Bling Blang.


I understand the concerns, but I don't really think you guys need to worry about this being a pyramid scheme. Its much more like Amway(which while ugly, is still legal), although I don't like the idea of having to PAY for a prospectus.... WTF? -with a business model like that, don't expect to get a lot of investors.


I understand MA wanting to get some investors to grow their business, and thats normal business practice. In my accounting class, one of the first things they taught was that the goal of business is to make a profit!

What I'm not too happy about is that they're basically promising %400 return on investment. That means that for every dollar/SEK that these bridge investors put into PE, us - the players are going to have to pay them 3x that amount. If you think loots are CRAP at the moment (and they are!!!! ask any hunter), wait 'til the Bridge wants to sell their shares back to MA. If they sell them to other people thats all well and good, but tell me please... what is the point of buying shares if there are no dividends? I mean what tells whether a share has value or not?? Whats to say that a share has doubled in value, other than someone else wanting to buy it? And why would someone else want to buy it? - because theres a chance someone else will want to buy it from them for a higher price in the future?? Thats much more of a concern to me... that theres no dividend payments.


I'm all happy for MA to be advertising. A lot of people dislike advertising, but having an active interest in graphic design, I have done my research in this area...and people, advertising makes the world turn! Without advertising, you'd be living in a void. I know the Chinese currency is not as strong as the US dollar, but just look at all the people from other countries with weaker currencies that play. Also, not all Chinese are poor. And 1 more point, is that we're talking Asia here, and not just China. There are a lot of wealthy people in this region, as there are every where else in the world. Also, I don't think the advertising should just be done in Asia, as there are a lot of people in other countries that haven't heard about PE yet, so why limit ourselves to there?

I'm all happy for PE to grow, because I'm no longer what I consider a noob, having 500 000 more depositing players join under me, with less in game experience etc. will actually mean the items I loot - those ep32's and fap28's and goblin armour etc. will no longer be TT food. And I'll be more uberish (relatively speaking)Because theres more people, I'm hoping there will be more uber item drops - hey maybe more mod faps...and maybe I can loot one!!! Having a lot more players would open the way for PE to be a viable advertising medium, which brings me to my next point.

I know we have also discussed whether or not ingame advertising should be allowed, and I'm going to reiterate my reasons for why it should.

A. In game advertising would be another revenue source for MA, which would mean they would not need to take so much profit from the players(ie. our loots can get better !!!).

B. I believe having advertising, such as a big futuristic Coca-Cola billboard(like in Blade Runner & other Sci-Fi movies), would help make the game feel more realistic.


As for Silverfox, I understand that he's wanting publicity for his Bridge thingie ma bobby, and thats all well and good. And like he said... time will tell, whether or not this scheme is a good thing or a bad thing.


For MA and them wanting more money to expand....
WAKE UP!!!!!!!! - Speak to the players.... We love this game.... IN SPITE of how we sometimes get treated, and that we don't always agree with the decisions you make, but we're not a bunch of kids playing this as is the case with most other MMORPGS (maybe a few kids, but average age of active players is around 25 yrs I'd say), theres a lot of business people...adults.... earning salaries, and sometimes wealthy entreprenuers playing in here, and if you need investments, why not set something up yourselves, and then let us players invest? (This can be in PEDS within the game!!! - Also may want to look at getting some more companies in other countries to hold PEDs for Sale please, as depositing without a credit card from other than Europe or USA is a mission!!!!)

[Muppis]

IH! Chill everybody DAMNIT!

Why can´t we just WAIT for an offical version of this.

And i understand why Marco dont want to give his version of this since a desition is not made yet!!

So just sit down on ya ass and play PE and wait instead

[Nupi]

Originally Posted by Skam

Oh and btw if anyone have a complaint about how I wrote it
<snap> .

She stays a cute puppet heh guys? :-)
hehe. :-)

[wanda]

Originally Posted by The Mighty

I'm all happy for MA to be advertising. A lot of people dislike advertising, but having an active interest in graphic design, I have done my research in this area...and people, advertising makes the world turn! Without advertising, you'd be living in a void. I know the Chinese currency is not as strong as the US dollar, but just look at all the people from other countries with weaker currencies that play. Also, not all Chinese are poor. And 1 more point, is that we're talking Asia here, and not just China. There are a lot of wealthy people in this region, as there are every where else in the world. Also, I don't think the advertising should just be done in Asia, as there are a lot of people in other countries that haven't heard about PE yet, so why limit ourselves to there?

A couple of factors to consider;
1. Mindark never made any large advertising campaigns in Europe or the US.
2. The population of Asia/China is huge.

big advertising + huge population = massive influx of new players (very few of which speak any english, swedish, french etc).

Logistics of servers and support are one issue which I'm sure has been discussed at length, but how will it affect everyday players who could very easily find themselves waking up in a chinese speaking game one morning.