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| General Discussion General Entropia Universe discussion. Used for threads that do not fit in the available forums or subforums. |
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05-08-2008, 08:12
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#81 | ||||||||
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Dominant
 
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Hi,
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I'm rarely there, I don't like this place. There are better places to go for Argos, I feel. But these (dumping thousands) are not this much, there's a lot more ppl that get thinking when they realize that even 2 or 3 times of the monthly subscription costs for [popular MMORPG] isn't this much in EU. When they start to read of people depositing thousands, when they check the prizes even of middle class gear. When they are realizing that it's very easy to burn a monthly deposit of 50 EUR/ $ in just one day, should they get bored of "economical skilling" and try to have some fun ... And when they realize that even bazillions of these little monsters slaughtered will never yield anything better anymore than some oils, hides, wools and ammo. In "the old times" I have spent much time at the outpost N of Jasons, hunting tiny Merp and Caudatergus. I have looted quite some ESI's in these days, some Mk.I, EP-32, a lot of Goblin Harnesses (that usually yielded +2 in PA - today nobody buys anymore) and even my very first Gremlin part. Don't misunderstand, I didn't make profit - but while skilling with my TT swords, FAP-5 and Goblin I rather often looted something making me "wOOOOOt!" Right, it was boring as hell - just skilling. But every now and then I had some small incentive, and this helped me getting over it, and to faithfully keep on depositing. Not long ago I came back to this place, this time w/o any armor, TT swords again, and Vivo T1. Spent some days again, and actually profited some PEC's over about 40 TT swords wasted (have lots more Evade now, more HP and better 1st Aid ...). Looted a helluva of stackables, and 1 Goblin Harness (M) that I TT'ed after trying in vain to sell at Swamp Camp (for TT, and accepting 1 bottle - 1 PEC as usual). Had this been similar in "the old days", I had left since long. The costs for the young participants have raised because of smaller average loot, and the incentive we once had getting something nice every now and then has vanished. This takes away quite some fun needed to bear the long time grind PE/ EU always has been. This makes quite some participants unhappy, and makes more of 'em leaving rather fast. This isn't good for EU, this isn't good for MA, and this isn't good for us remaining participants. And it's not a rant borrowed from other MMORPG's, it's an experience from the old PE itself! IMHO. This are not only my ideas, I have talked to a lot of new participants, and many have told me the reason why they whispered me to say "Goodbye". And I have seen a lot of long time participants leaving recently. Quote:
And whatever we could buy today, when EU-CE2 will finally be out and acceptable bug-free, will be ways cheaper. And parts will be available ways better than we can buy today. So I'd wait until it is here, maybe skipping one deposit or another, feeding the money to the piggy bank for new hardware. When it is here we'll very fast be able to read in the forums what's actually needed, and buying then will save us a lot of money. That then we'll be able to deposit, might buy us a nice hunt of some of the "big bad mobs" ;-)) Have fun! |
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No more Sig here.
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05-12-2008, 17:26
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#83 | ||||||
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Prowler
  
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Ok, I've had a couple days to formulate my thoughts, time to respond
 Item Drops I posted something similair earlier in this thread I think.... but, I'll try to re-explain my thoughts on items... I give you the gloriful minor heal chip.... I loot on average 3/week... I always TT them... so, what's the point of getting 3 a week? They are worse than oils for me... at least I can use oils to make stuff... An item is what you make of it. While I may not need/want a minor heal chip, you might. If I'm an player with a set of shadow (feet included), why would I want another set of shadow, or even feet for shadow? The answer is obvious, because of the market price of shadow.... but, the tt value, it's the same as if I were to get oils... I understand it's wicked cool to get something you know you could sell to some other player for a markup, but in actuality, these items are what destroys the game for new and old players (or rather, the lack thereof). If rare items dropped all the time, the game would quickly become boring (and extremely expensive for new players).... imagine saying 'whoo hoo, another pair of shadow feet, that's 4 today... to the TT I go... I need ammo'.... If drop rates were increase on everything, especially to the point of market saturation, it becomes boring... and, if new players are hunting higher than their skills, even with wicked good items, then they will inevitably lose an ass load of money. I might even add, maybe, just maybe, the item drop rates are based upon the current levels of players in the game.. i.e. a million noobs = a million sets of pixie, and 5 ubers = 5 sets of eon... I would imagine that the current player base skill level has something to do with item drops, but I'm jst guessing here, because we can't possibly get those figures... but, none the less, increasing the drop rate of any particular item MUST be balanced. I think the balancing is exactly how Mindark wants it, we just need to figure it out TT Value of loots (smaller avg loot?) It's worth consideration that maybe the loot is still the same as it always has been? The issue may be what you are hunting? I can say that my loot has always been the same.... what the loot looks like has changed a lot over the years, but the overall value of what the loots TT value is, stays the same (~80%). Of course, you have to understand, I work on a weekly/monthly basis.... not as an avg of the hour... the loot cycles come and go... some days good, other bad... As my avatar has progressed in skills, I have noticed that the cycles do seem to be more spread out... not a good day, then a bad day, then a good day... more like, bad week, good week, good week, bad week.... I think that the reason avg loot is down for some people is because they hunt way above their level. People do find it boring to hunt combibo's all day long. But, I think people should learn to stay on combibos until it's time to move up to the next mob. If people were able to kill hogs and dasp on day 1, what fun would that be? Conversly, once you've reached the hog/dasp killing spree level, what fun is it to keep playing? I know that quite a few older players find it mind numbing to kill hogs all day, I know I do... Every once in a while, I just think 'wtf am I doing this for, this is insanely boring'.... and, when I do think that, I change my routine.... routines are boring... lately, I've been doing all sorts of weird stuff to keep me entertained... naked bots with a shortblade... combibo's with only a marber (insanely satisfying killing things in one shot).....team hunting falx.... etc etc... I think the game is only boring when a person makes it boring... I think people leave (and stay) because of a few different reasons... 1) Real money involved = scary situation for people that have limited budgets 2) Real money = Older players = less kids = less potential players 3) Like misty said, dump an ass load of money in, then expect to be uber 4) Don't like the game 5) Don't understand the game I could add more...but none the less, I don't think that average loot has changed for the worse....it has always been ~80% IF you hunt/mine/craft within your skill level.... Back to items for a sec.... today's guns will be tomorrow's ubers.... tomorrows guns will be the next days ubers... looking at the high dmg/sec guns, and the plain old high dmg guns on entropedia shows you that a LOT of these guns are still dropping today, AND were just 'invented' within the last few VU's.... looking at dmg/sec, the top 4 are unique... #5, svempa xt, a crafted weapon, that doesn't 'drop', but it's bp does, and I know a few that have that bp.... #6, doa sh imp, yeah, haven't seen one drop in ages, but, it's kinda unique imho.. #7, doa FR, one just dropped the other day....saying they don't drop enough is a mater of opinion... You may think we need 1 doa foeripper per person, or 1 per every 2 peeople, or 1 per evey 10 people... but, I would think that I don't want 1 out of every 10 people having a FR in PVP... especially if 1 outta 10 people have shadow... that would REALLY make 1 hp a huge difference in terms of equality... As it stands right now, if you are new, but have enough money, you can buy your way to the top, that's great for those that want it that way... but if you don't have a lot of money, you have to grind your way to the top... that's the way the game is meant to be played... it's a free game dont' forget.. MA planned it this way... Money = Power BUT Time = money It doesn't matter if you are new, old, low skilled, high skilled, or even mid skilled, you can play for free if you have the time to do it. If you don't have the time to do it, then you have to pay for your 'entertainment' time. If I sweat for 2 hours a day, for a week, that will buy me enough ammo to hunt snabbles and whatnot for a couple hours at the end of the week... all the while gaining skills, and making friends... If I deposit $10, that will buy me enough ammo to hunt young hogs for a couple hours... but if I hunt snabbles and whatnot, it will last me all week long..... I'm rambling now I think... hopefully you got the general ideas that are floating through my head  ~Red |
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05-12-2008, 20:31
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#84 | ||||||
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Dominant
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Sweating can help balance it out for individuals but to make the statement you can play for free cannot be true for everyone, someone must pay in the end.
Over the weekend we had another loot bonanza for three people with over 180kped in three loots, nice for them but crappy for everyone else. That could have neen 10,000 18ped loots or even 1000 180ped loots either would be nice if it came my way. I've heard from one person that they knew of people selling up because of it (whether this is true I cannot confirm). A leveling of the loot would only encourage more people to stay, if they leave then its because they're more interested in the gambling not the gameplay. Dion, maybe in your interviews with MA staff you can request one with the balancing manager. I'm sure there are lots of questions people would ask regarding the economy of EU. |
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__________________
5 sets of foot guards looted since October 2007
 "Life is an endless, relentless series of grinding disappointments" - Al Murray publand lord. I was a pigeon but not anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDi2NlsA4nI |
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05-13-2008, 11:16
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#85 | |||||||||||||
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Dominant
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Hi again,
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For the little demand, these drop too much, so markup is down. There is a lot of other items that is similar - small old UL weapons for instance, some beginner armors, a lot of the smaller old UL FAPs. All of these are dropping ways too much, thus having nearly no worth beyond TT, thus causing anger and frustration to the looters ("Whow, an item!!! OMG, just another piece of TT fodder ..."). On the other hand there's quite some items that drop from wrong mob - for instance things like Embra Laser Sword (L) that would be a nice sword for melee beginners but drops from Phasm(!), a mob that would 1-hit anybody that would have use for the sword ... Quote:
If you ever meet the MA balancing manager for interview, take some Manticore's with you, and fully decay them on the back of his head for me, plz - I have heard this helps to a better intellectual capacity! ;-) If you hit too hard, doesn't matter - maybe they'd hire a better one then ... (This was satirical, not a call for real violence against another human being - if he is one! Should he be a labor rat deciding the loot rates choosing the pot he feeds from, well - maybe they could upgrade to a chimp?) Quote:
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The Ad system is a complete failure because of lack of decent numbers of active participants IMHO, haven't seen any Ad but one or two in the very beginning - well, no media agency would sink more then a few cents into reaching some few thousands of hardcore gamers, there's ways better ways to reach the targeted group ... So all loot has to come from ([deposits + other income] - [needed profit + costs to work + withdrawals]). This is very simple. Fairy tales of "MA only taking decay" and such are pure marketing BS for everyone having more toes then brain cells ;-) Sure, MA can only give us what they are able to give without hurting themselves! And when they flood the chat with insane ATH's/ HoF's now on a regular basis it inevitably means these PED's are lacking elsewhere. This distribution has changed quite some time ago, and I'm easily able to reproduce the results: Where I have been able to hunt smaller Atrax once, as Newbie, with constant sufficient return, today it is a roulette, even with ways better skills & gear - either I get global/s and/or minis, or I lose heavily. This (the fluctuating results today) might maybe even out in the long run, but I'm not able to afford the loss of some thousands PED's over a time, in the hope a "phat loot" I'd then need urgently. I do not say that anything has changed with the overall amount of loot (this would be another thread, talking of Ferraris and platinum coated wheel caps ...), but the way this overall loot is distributed has changed: "Get globals/ minis (jackpots) or lose big!" This is the motto of EU these days, it has become more gambling then ever! Crazy, isn't it? Whole gaming scene tries to fence off from gambling to avoid US sanctions, and MA introduces more and more of it? How long it will work to bury US authorities with powerpoints? What will happen to EU if becoming declared "gambling" as it really is now? Quote:
Would loot not come of pure random, it would mean that certain avatars would have a better chance to profit, making this very similar to the well known pyramid schemes (where the early birds feast on the later stupidos - we're not like this, right?). For sure, Skill does matter - but only in the means of what you're able to risk (what mob can you kill) and the way how to do it (how economically can you kill it). MA would be plain stupid & asking for jail if a newbie (well, maybe a team of ...) and an Uber killing the same Hogglo would have different chances for loot, given nearly equal decay. Quote:
I'm no gambler, and the only way to escape this "gamblingization" MA has invented is to stupidly mindlessly grind on small boring mobs - at least this way my losses are computable. I'm very well ready to pay for EU, and I have proved to be ready to deposit ways more then now - but then, please, I'd like to have a chance for a sufficient return, and a chance to improve further. The actual situation where the given loot distribution forces me into mindless grinding on boring mobs, and where I'm a facing a "Great wall of Skill improvement" doesn't make me want to spent more - for what anyway? My next Armor would be Ghoul - I cannot pay. My next weapons would be - f*ck, I'm melee, and MA has forgotten to invent good melee weapons, I'd like to go into Taming or MindForce, but MA has completely shut down these areas. I could be able to be another H400 clone (have maxed it), but would I really pay this much money for being another sheep in the big herd? Where's the fun? What exactly gives me MA for my money? What would I get spending it elsewhere? At the moment, I'm happy to pay for my Gnomen She-Rougue that yet is way below maxLevel, but paying or EU? Well, when I'll have sold my stash I'll drop some 25 EUR more, but depositing anything for improvement? Ghoul? Many 100's EUR? Or even some 100 EUR for some (L) blades, for burning down in 2 or 3 days of big hunting? This is way beyond my understanding. I'm no gambler, guess this is the reason. I might not be anymore the targeted group for MA - they might hunt for big spenders now that drop some thousand $$$ and leave then ... I have 50 EUR in my pocket that are free to spent. Now. Putting them into EU would mean about 600 PED, that I'd easily be able to burn in a single Hogglo hunt, over, lets say, 4 hours. I could pay a complete year for my Gnomen She-Rougue for it, or I could pay a nice weekend for me & my beloved one. Guess I'll vote for the weekend. Not this far away MA would have collected it. But now? No. Have fun! |
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05-13-2008, 11:51
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#86 | |||||||
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Stalker
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Not money. Eye oil. So not gambling, at all |
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05-13-2008, 14:28
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#87 | |||||||||||||||||
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Prowler
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 I'm positive there must be a system in place to not drop too many items that can't be effectively used.... Quote:
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That all being said, I do suppose it also depends on how you define the words in the definition of gambling. Wiki definition; Gambling has a specific economic definition, referring to wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. I underlined that part to make people think about it.... It can be construed as if you (The user) are uncertain of the outcome. However, the definition means that the outcome can not be predicted by anyone. I think the outcome of loot CAN be predicted by someone. Just because you are not certain of the outcome doesn't make it gambling... much like the street person that puts a ball under a cup, and moves 3 cups around, and you guess it. You have a 1 in 3 chance to guess it correctly, right? That's what some would consider gambling... but, trully, had you watched the cups, you would know which cup the ball is under... The same principal is in effect here... we are given the cups to watch (skill messages, loot windows, hof/globals in chat, hof window), we just don't fullly understand how these messages affect our outcomes.... Quote:
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Now, about the prices on stuff.. I completely agree that the prices of stuff around here is fecking insane. Currently, there is no possible way to get higher end items without spending a butt load. This is where more people need to work together. You can thank all those people who want to make money as to why the prices are so insanely high. To combat this, many of us long term players try to sell/buy stuff at tt. I know I buy stuff all the time from my friends, at TT. I also sell a LOT of my stuff at TT. That being said, there are some items in this game that have a ridiculously high TT. Those items... holy cow... Those items are trully the 'uber' items imho. Quote:
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~Red Last edited by Dion Red Strike; 05-13-2008 at 14:48. |
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