Challenge to the community: unfreeze the skill progression

[Doer]

FYI i submitted a second case to expand and restate my first.

Originally Posted by Doer (Support Case)

This is somewhat related to the previous case. One of the inadequecies of the present skill system is that it does not award hunting skills according to the difficulty of the mob being killed. Because of this, it is many times faster for me to get skills shooting tiny tantillions than it is shooting atrox prowlers. I understand that this is due to the "kill bonus" that can give a little package of skillgains after a mob dies, and it is a nice thing; however, there needs to be more of a bonus for shooting mobs with a higher dmg and hp than smaller mobs -- a clear difference.

Please pass this on for consideration by the design team, and a reminder to reconsider the manner of changes to the skill system in the last VU. A linear increase in skill volume (slowing down everyone the same amount) would be acceptable because everyone would still be able to progress. The huge exponential decrease at high levels that was implemented is discouraging many extreme participants and would-be extreme participants and causing them to reduce their participation. I suspect these same players provide a large portion of your revenues.

Challenge to the community: unfreeze the skill progression

It would be much more motivational to add high-level SIB items that raise the bar without removing the possibility of new players ever reaching that point without simply buying a fortune's worth of skills. Please reconsider the way you adjust the skill system, and consider making the changes final and stating that so as to restore some trust and hope in those that have set long-term goals that they will be able to reach them without everything being changed on them as they go.

[Witte]

Originally Posted by SB2

Witte, Yes.. the Maddox devalued somewhat due to the amp change... But as Rain mentioned, who would invest in it when they have no expectation of maxing HA on it? You are correct regarding the ESI shortage, but HG skill value took a HUGE hit when the skill nerf arrived as it is no longer necessary or worthwhile to skill HG when (L) weapons will provide the efficiency.

Maybe. But I havnt realy seen prices on non(L) items drop. Rather increase even more. Dont forget non(L) items have the advanatage of not paying for the markup when using it. And on the other hand, people have complained allot MA should do somthing about priceinflation, so even if its true, its not that bad right?

About the value of HG skills, http://peauction.com/itemlisting.php...ill+Implant+(L) doesnt realy show a huge drop. The main reason is that HGIvalue = Skillvalue+ESIprice. When HGI value stays the same, and ESIprice increases, the Skillvalue must go down. On top of that, you need allot more ESIs to chip out your skills. So to obtain the same value of your skills, the ESI price should be about 2-3 times lower then before the change. So basicly, MA can still solve all this by increasing the ESI droprate.

[SB2]

Originally Posted by Witte

Maybe. But I havnt realy seen prices on non(L) items drop. Rather increase even more. Dont forget non(L) items have the advanatage of not paying for the markup when using it. And on the other hand, people have complained allot MA should do somthing about priceinflation, so even if its true, its not that bad right?

Non(L) items HAD the advantage of not paying for the markup... But that advantage was removed when it became impossible to max HA on them... The Maddox IV dropped 200-300 ped since the amp VU and has not recovered (ask Photon how many people abandoned their orders for the Maddox IV's he was crafting). Not to mention the drop in value for FiRaCo amps... especially Dantes... The items that held value were the items already in use by the high level players or the ones that weren't adversely affected by the amp changes...

[SB2]

Originally Posted by Witte

About the value of HG skills, http://peauction.com/itemlisting.php...ill+Implant+(L) doesnt realy show a huge drop. The main reason is that HGIvalue = Skillvalue+ESIprice. When HGI value stays the same, and ESIprice increases, the Skillvalue must go down. On top of that, you need allot more ESIs to chip out your skills. So to obtain the same value of your skills, the ESI price should be about 2-3 times lower then before the change. So basicly, MA can still solve all this by increasing the ESI droprate.

As far as ESI droprate is concerned, it's my belief that MA changed the ESI system to stem the tide of withdrawals after the amp and skill nerfing... But that is another argument for another thread....

[Thorn]

SB2 +rep. Your views most closely match mine on these and other related issues.

I am lower to mid level player that has definitely been discouraged by recent changes. I have already made a decision to not deposit any more as suggested in a previous post. Or at least until I see some proof of equalization back to where we were a few months ago. Since the last vu as well as skills slowing the lack of loot has got me the most. It has drained my ped to zero and sent me into my storage numerous times to sell off stuff at increasing losses in order to keep playing in hopes that things would turn around for me. Unfortunately I have about reached bottom aside from my armor weapons and one or two other things I would rather not sell off. I am now on borrowed time, a borrowed (L) finder for mining and even some borrowed bombs/probes. My soc mates would rather try to keep me playing than accept my offer of giving them my skills and items as opposed to cashing them out.

There is a need to balance skills, profit etc. But who wants to have to wait until they are old and gray irl to be able to hunt some bigger mob. I from the start viewed EU as a long term pursuit but the way things have gone it starts to look more like a long term gambling session at a casino and one in which I always lose.

Yes it`s true I could theoretically chip out now and see a little profit. But that`s after depositing yet again to be able to afford the esi`s neccessary and losing further on the withdrawl fees. The farther this goes the more I don`t like the smell. Don`t get me wrong I like EU as a game and like the people but as with everyone else I do have a real life. And to further sacrifice it to try and enjoy EU more is simply not healthy nor practical.

I have felt long ago, that as has been mentioned in previous posts, additions should have been being made to further the interest of uber players. Bigger new mobs and more challenges as well as weapons etc. And allow everyone else to continue participation without feeling so squeezed with each new vu.

I believe that an increase in the player base with many small depositors is better for MA and players in the long run than a smaller player base and a few big depositors. A handful of people does not a civilization make.

I had better end here before my book gets any longer. I have been called a man of few words but when I speak it is usually a mouthfull!

[andyzammy]

Originally Posted by Witte

In the end, its all about your efficiency compared to others, and the way you progress in that.

this is not true at all. when hunting (especially solo), the aim is to be as eficcient as possible in order to minimise loss and maximise proffit. you are not in competition against anyone else when hunting solo. it doesnt matter how much more efficiant you are than anyone else when you're hunting and they arent. solo, you're completely against MA, not other players.

imo, for 99.99% of players, it has now become impossible to achieve 10/10 HA on any normal weapons. now, i know that you said its up to you to chose wether to proffit or lose (and by that i saw it as using normal weapons at extremely low HA, or SIB weapons at max HA), but still, they have in essence "disabled" the normal weapons for the people that dont already have max/decent HA with them. so MA have taken away the choice for most people to use normal or SIB. which means, if i want to (for 99/100 hunts) at best, break even, or lose as little as possible, i must use SIB.

i accepted the concept of skilling up to use normal weapons at the price of an arm and a leg, but now its goina cost an arm, two legs, your chance to have kids and a lung. its just not worth it anymore.

[rhogenbe]

I do not mind it getting harder to chip up to uber status.
It makes it more equal to the people who can not chip and put in $10000's.
You need to work hard to get to the top.

I think MA does not look enough at how other games solve the skill problem. Other options would be opening up an other continent with a heavier class of mobs. Also new drops of higher damage/sec weapons can then be introduced.
In other games your looting of mobs that are getting to easy for your skills slowly dries down. Thus forcing players to slowly move up to the moib appropriate for their skill.

We saw with the atrox queen/eomon event that it still is possible to have mobs that uber players can not kill on their own. So a new continent with mobs like that opens up new possabilities. New top end armor and weapons also gives a chance for others to move up in armor and weapons.

I think there are enough other possabilities then a skill nerve.

As for profitability more players is a more stable and better solution then to milk a small playerbase for more money.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)

[Doer]

jdegre posted this plot in another thread which illustrates how brutal and extreme the change is. It will (for example) take 1.5 times as much skilling to get a skill from 0 to 6k than it did before the VU. 7k is approaching 2x the skilling. It gets even more extreme above that.

I had thought it was obvious from my original post, but some people have asked this: the side affect of this change for highly skilled players is that if they chip out their skills, they have many times more tt in skills than they did before the change.

[The Elf]

case sent, let's see how many of thesewe can get.. a big enough outcry is the only way to get a change here, i'm afraid...

Originally Posted by The Elf to MA Support

i'm writing you out of concern for the continued well-being of the Unvierse which you folks have created, that i love so dearly.
in the past six months, between changing amps, and scrapping loots, and everything else, you've made the game *virtually* unplayable.
i find this to be a major problem, as i have invested both time and money into this game over the last several years, but even more so because the wave of people who are talking 'cash-out' looks like it may end up causing the company to fold altogether.
this thread, at EntropiaForum, details some of the more recent concerns/reasons people are threatening to leave the universe
Challenge to the community: unfreeze the skill progression

while i realize that nearly every change to the system ends up with a handful of players leaving, i have never seen anything like this. hunters don't hunt, miners don't mine, crafters don't craft... everybody's selling, but nobody's really buying anymore.
there's a core group of people who will always be here, and i consider myself in that group, but a massively-multiplayer game with 50 active participants isn't all that massive, now is it?
looking at my account info to see if i'm a depositor will not work, by the way, as myself and a couple of friends had some credit card company issues, and were making all of our (collectively) deposits thru another IRL friend whose card was working, so my account shows no (or few) deposits.
simply put, i have sunk about $5k USD and 4 years into entropia, and don't want to lose this world/universe/game that i now consider to be a part of my life. please fair-up and fix-up the game before it collapses under its' own weight when the players leave.
with respect and concern, The Elf

[The Elf]

Originally Posted by Doer

I had thought it was obvious from my original post, but some people have asked this: the side affect of this change for highly skilled players is that if they chip out their skills, they have many times more tt in skills than they did before the change.

oh, THAT'S why none of the ubers are yeling about this...

the rich get richer, again at the expense of the un-rich. how very.. 'capitalist'...