Challenge to the community: unfreeze the skill progression

[Witte]

Originally Posted by andyzammy

this is not true at all. when hunting (especially solo), the aim is to be as eficcient as possible in order to minimise loss and maximise proffit. you are not in competition against anyone else when hunting solo. it doesnt matter how much more efficiant you are than anyone else when you're hunting and they arent. solo, you're completely against MA, not other players.

For armor decay and fap decay you are totaly right. However, weapon wise, you ARE competing vs others. It is the rest of the playerbase that decides your loot, not MA. Everytime you fire a weapon, you add somthing to the so called "lootpool". If everyone is ultra efficient and you arnt, your avarage return will be lower then the cost to kill a mob. If everyone is very unefficient, and you are efficient, your avarage return will be higher then the avarage cost to kill a mob.

Thats how the system works. The loot system is a null system which means what goes in goes out again. If you were the only player, you could never get more out of the system then yourself put in (in the long run). I even suspect that armor and fap decay is MA's only income, but it can also be they take part of the weapon decay. Although thats contradicting the null system theory, which I think was confirmed by Marco at one point.

imo, for 99.99% of players, it has now become impossible to achieve 10/10 HA on any normal weapons. now, i know that you said its up to you to chose wether to proffit or lose (and by that i saw it as using normal weapons at extremely low HA, or SIB weapons at max HA), but still, they have in essence "disabled" the normal weapons for the people that dont already have max/decent HA with them. so MA have taken away the choice for most people to use normal or SIB. which means, if i want to (for 99/100 hunts) at best, break even, or lose as little as possible, i must use SIB.

I have been hunting with an "old" weapon pretty much lately. HA=3.8. I made some pretty nice profit. I think over 1k ped in a month not counting skills. (whenever I loot an (L) weapon I use it instead). It made me pretty confident to be able to say: Weapon efficiency is NOT the main factor in profiting/losing PEDs. It does make it a hell lot easyer though .

i accepted the concept of skilling up to use normal weapons at the price of an arm and a leg, but now its goina cost an arm, two legs, your chance to have kids and a lung. its just not worth it anymore.

I can only advice you to look for ways to skill or hunt more efficient with your current weapon/skills. It is possible. I am not talking about profit, just try to start with losing less peds. (Or have I just damn lucky for more then 1,5 years?)

[Doer]

Originally Posted by The Elf

oh, THAT'S why none of the ubers are yeling about this...

the rich get richer, again at the expense of the un-rich. how very.. 'capitalist'...

Actually, Pham was one of the first to post about it. This affects them the same way it affects everyone who ever wants to skill above newbie status: it's extremely extremely hard to advance after the 5-6k mark.

Yes, it does multiply their "assets" which is silly, but that's a consequence of the skills system.

Witte, your points are valid but not really relevant to the thesis of this thread; which is, that anyone who is not uber skilled now will never be uber skilled without buying an uber amount of skills. It's just not possible in the span of the game (even if it proves to be the longest-lived MMORPG in history) to get there with natural skilling now (as things currently exist). And -- there's no reason for that to be the case!

[andyzammy]

Originally Posted by Witte

For armor decay and fap decay you are totaly right. However, weapon wise, you ARE competing vs others. It is the rest of the playerbase that decides your loot, not MA. Everytime you fire a weapon, you add somthing to the so called "lootpool". If everyone is ultra efficient and you arnt, your avarage return will be lower then the cost to kill a mob. If everyone is very unefficient, and you are efficient, your avarage return will be higher then the avarage cost to kill a mob.

Thats how the system works. The loot system is a null system which means what goes in goes out again. If you were the only player, you could never get more out of the system then yourself put in (in the long run). I even suspect that armor and fap decay is MA's only income, but it can also be they take part of the weapon decay. Although thats contradicting the null system theory, which I think was confirmed by Marco at one point.



I have been hunting with an "old" weapon pretty much lately. HA=3.8. I made some pretty nice profit. I think over 1k ped in a month not counting skills. (whenever I loot an (L) weapon I use it instead). It made me pretty confident to be able to say: Weapon efficiency is NOT the main factor in profiting/losing PEDs. It does make it a hell lot easyer though .



I can only advice you to look for ways to skill or hunt more efficient with your current weapon/skills. It is possible. I am not talking about profit, just try to start with losing less peds. (Or have I just damn lucky for more then 1,5 years?)

well, tbh, yeah, i think you must be one of the very lucky few that have managed to learn and beat the system. by the sound of it, you really know what you are doing. i was surprised when you said u'd managed to proffit for so long - and completely astounded when you said you were using your normal weapon. mortified when you revealed your HA. so either you've beaten the system, or you have a halo around your head.

and you're completely right - weapon eficciency means nothing. its MA that dishes out the peds, and thats the biggest decider of the lot.

well, i really dont know how to improve weapon eficciency more than to use SIB weapons.

[Witte]

Originally Posted by andyzammy

well, tbh, yeah, i think you must be one of the very lucky few that have managed to learn and beat the system. by the sound of it, you really know what you are doing. i was surprised when you said u'd managed to proffit for so long - and completely astounded when you said you were using your normal weapon. mortified when you revealed your HA. so either you've beaten the system, or you have a halo around your head.

and you're completely right - weapon eficciency means nothing. its MA that dishes out the peds, and thats the biggest decider of the lot.

well, i really dont know how to improve weapon eficciency more than to use SIB weapons.

Sorry to give you the wrong impression, but I have not been using non(L) all the time as primary weapon, but only for the last 1-2 months. Just wanted to see if I could also profit with that. It was allot harder, but It wasnt too hard to minimize losses. Then all you need a hof every now and then, and you endup with profit. Anyway, the thing I wanted to make clear, is that even if you maxout your guns, its still not a garantee you profit at all. However, it IS possible to profit with lower HA/DMG. Maybe thats also a reason I am not realy upset about the skillchanges.

I think its simply a matter of setting new goals in the current situation, and dont pay too much attention that you will probably never get 10HA. Maybe 7, or 8 is a nice goal?

[andyzammy]

7 or 8 wouldnt be too bad, but i doubt even that is managable. definately not at the current rate that i hunt at anyway. i think if this thing sticks, im not going to take hunting seriously as a profession anymore.

[SB2]

Originally Posted by andyzammy

7 or 8 wouldnt be too bad, but i doubt even that is managable. definately not at the current rate that i hunt at anyway. i think if this thing sticks, im not going to take hunting seriously as a profession anymore.

You are correct Andy, 7 or 8 is now what I can only hope to achieve in 2 years but only if I hunt at my old pace and deposit rate. But why would I want to? My long term goals were trashed when the amp and skill nerfs were introduced and it now requires more investment than it is worth to try and keep pace with those changes.

Witte: It may be easy for you to say "change your goals based upon the changes in the game", but why would I want to throw in another $5+K USD when all I can do is hope that any goal change that I make won't get nerfed once more and cost me half of my additional investment?

[Marianne]

Hi,

I think Witte makes the obvious points that the skill nerf has affected everyone, so a person with 8k rifle is going to struggle proportionately the same as someone with 5k. Fair point, but for someone like me who didn't arrive in EU earlier, MindArk has taken away a very important reason why people want to progress their characters : Motivation. I don't pretend to know much about the skill system and for me , is not an issue at the moment, but I do feel a gloom amongst a lot of my higher skilled fl people and it filters across and down the community.


And motivation = enthusiasm = desire to maintain ( or increase ) deposits and gametime.

I can only think Mindark is afraid of us all being uber and too efficient. If I were them, I would be more afraid of having no players at all.

Marianne

[Pham]

andyzammy, i lose in like 70% of hunts with maxed out imp mk2 lol
and i do like 3k peds on hunting a day (still)
and i miss like 1 every 5 shots
do you think SIB limited weapon will fix anything ?
no, it will just make me lose at least 100 ped more each hunt, nothing more.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Marianne

Hi,

I think Witte makes the obvious points that the skill nerf has affected everyone, so a person with 8k rifle is going to struggle proportionately the same as someone with 5k.

Hi Marianne

I don't think Witte made that point, really. It doesn't proportionately affect the players the same at different levels, which is my main issue with it. The rest of what you said corresponds to what i've observed, as well.

Pham, just out of curiousity, do you ever hunt mobs that don't always loot?

[Pham]

Originally Posted by Doer

Actually, Pham was one of the first to post about it. This affects them the same way it affects everyone who ever wants to skill above newbie status: it's extremely extremely hard to advance after the 5-6k mark.

Yes, it does multiply their "assets" which is silly, but that's a consequence of the skills system.

one my reason about posting that was that the benefits of having full weapon stats and possible better sell-out price on skills got outweighted by the fact that i cannot pump and sell enough of skills to make ends after lousy hunting loots...
another was just because it was 3rd time to my memory doing shit like that