Is EU's RCE collapsing?

[QuintusMagnus]

Originally Posted by TimUnleashed

While I take your point, Nihilist, I personally would be much happier if, for example, all the shopkeepers in PA Mall were running thriving, competitive businesses, because then people would have a good reason to come into the mall. At the moment, and this goes for all places where there are shops, if there were more reliable shops, more people would come and that would be good for business for everyone.

If you can run a business in a shop that isn't undercut and destroyed by auction, then it's hard to see it being undercut and destroyed by other shops, but maybe I'm wrong.

Good point there. Sounds like you're a fan of creative destruction. Indeed, higher competition may increase the specialization of shops (selling unique, rare items and such). However, I'm not sure if there's enough of them on the market in absolute terms to sustain many shops.

Of course, the extra competition WOULD squeeze the profit margins a bit more, making things slightly better for the economy as a whole. Whether it would increase or decrease shop ownership in the long run would be a function of the availability of goods, though, I think.

[Nihilist]

Originally Posted by TimUnleashed

While I take your point, Nihilist, I personally would be much happier if, for example, all the shopkeepers in PA Mall were running thriving, competitive businesses, because then people would have a good reason to come into the mall. At the moment, and this goes for all places where there are shops, if there were more reliable shops, more people would come and that would be good for business for everyone.

If you can run a business in a shop that isn't undercut and destroyed by auction, then it's hard to see it being undercut and destroyed by other shops, but maybe I'm wrong.

well thats already how it is.. the shop owners set prices UNDER auction.. and still people would rather use the auction.. not due to prices.. but due to the lag they encounter when they run around in the malls.. and also due to the fact that they can quickly scan everything in the auction.. they have no chance to quickly scan everything in a mall.

i watch buyouts of cheap tt crap on auction selling all the time.. even while shops have much lower buyouts available. so something is obviously wrong with how the malls work..

adding a cheap rental/mini-auction near all the tp's would further decrease the usefulness of malls.

Originally Posted by QuintusMagnus

Good point there. Sounds like you're a fan of creative destruction. Indeed, higher competition may increase the specialization of shops (selling unique, rare items and such). However, I'm not sure if there's enough of them on the market in absolute terms to sustain many shops.

Of course, the extra competition WOULD squeeze the profit margins a bit more, making things slightly better for the economy as a whole. Whether it would increase or decrease shop ownership in the long run would be a function of the availability of goods, though, I think.

most of the unique gear is already owned by players that don't own shops.. so they use the auction to sell their gear. for a shop owner to specialize in that unique gear he would have to pay the auction buyouts or hopefully bid lower then market rate then resale at a higher markup. which of course nobody wants as that just increases prices and inflation.

then theres the catch 22 situation that if a shop owner (take slithers recent blight for instance) sets prices on nice crafted gear too much under auction the resellers snap it up and put it on auction at a higher markup.. coupled with the auction fee's the resellers pay, prices then inflate even more.

[Rayne Jade]

Originally Posted by TimUnleashed

...You CANNOT just claim "it's virtual property, it'll go up in price just like real property". Real property goes up in price because it has a value to people and the demand is always higher than the supply. The problem in EU is that there is plenty of property and no good reason to own it....

In addition... there is another good reason NOT to compare what happens in EU to real life. Real life land has a price on it because they are not making land anymore - pretty certain we found it all. MA can (and does) make new land, estates, etc whenever they want... and without warning. Market speculation is extremely unwise in this universe since we the players have absolutely NO IDEA what is coming next and NO WAY to find out.

Originally Posted by Nihilist

...i watch buyouts of cheap tt crap on auction selling all the time.. even while shops have much lower buyouts available. so something is obviously wrong with how the malls work...

So true... the mallshops (with a few exceptions) are of no use to me. As stated, I would rather check the auction and compare because the ability is there in the auction. I cant stand running all over creation to compare prices. And then after getting to the next shop to compare THE RENT IS NOT PAID and I cant even get in there. The malls, IMO are a farce. Looked cool and it was the latest "new thing" ingame so people bought them up for rediculous prices and the shops sold in the same manner. Nothing was gained by the community IMO. In addition, they are an eyesore on the landscape. I could get over the huge footprint of the buildings if there was some functionality but that was not to be.

Just my 2 pec... I am sure some of you disagree

[QuintusMagnus]

Originally Posted by Nihilist

well thats already how it is.. the shop owners set prices UNDER auction.. and still people would rather use the auction.. not due to prices.. but due to the lag they encounter when they run around in the malls.. and also due to the fact that they can quickly scan everything in the auction.. they have no chance to quickly scan everything in a mall.

i watch buyouts of cheap tt crap on auction selling all the time.. even while shops have much lower buyouts available. so something is obviously wrong with how the malls work..

adding a cheap rental/mini-auction near all the tp's would further decrease the usefulness of malls.



most of the unique gear is already owned by players that don't own shops.. so they use the auction to sell their gear. for a shop owner to specialize in that unique gear he would have to pay the auction buyouts or hopefully bid lower then market rate then resale at a higher markup. which of course nobody wants as that just increases prices and inflation.

then theres the catch 22 situation that if a shop owner (take slithers recent blight for instance) sets prices on nice crafted gear too much under auction the resellers snap it up and put it on auction at a higher markup.. coupled with the auction fee's the resellers pay, prices then inflate even more.

Well, in terms of him buying it and selling it at a higher rate, it's only inflationary if it's unnecessary. IF, however, he's doing something like, say, bringing a collection of rare items together that a player will be able to purchase on demand and which perhaps even have relevance to each other (a whole suit of rare armor, for example) then he might in point of fact be providing a "value added" service for which there's no real measured inflation.

[MadMark]

I can only say what I find. I chk the auction, then hunt the shops for a better price & 75% of the time, I can find it cheaper on the auction. I might have to wait for it, but some good deals are to be found in auction IF you have the patience...

[TimUnleashed]

Originally Posted by QuintusMagnus

Good point there. Sounds like you're a fan of creative destruction. Indeed, higher competition may increase the specialization of shops (selling unique, rare items and such). However, I'm not sure if there's enough of them on the market in absolute terms to sustain many shops.

Of course, the extra competition WOULD squeeze the profit margins a bit more, making things slightly better for the economy as a whole. Whether it would increase or decrease shop ownership in the long run would be a function of the availability of goods, though, I think.

Creative destruction? I'm not familiar with that term... but if you say so

I guess my thinking is more from the perspective that if the economy in general is doing well then we all do well. I don't necessarily need to get more sales than anyone else, but if we give people a reason to enter the malls then we have a greater chance of making sales than if they don't enter the malls. For the greater good of the community, diversity is incredibly powerful in my opinion. It also creates more competition, and healthy competition is a good thing for everyone except tycoons, methinks.

Originally Posted by Nihilist

well thats already how it is.. the shop owners set prices UNDER auction.. and still people would rather use the auction.. not due to prices.. but due to the lag they encounter when they run around in the malls.. and also due to the fact that they can quickly scan everything in the auction.. they have no chance to quickly scan everything in a mall.

i watch buyouts of cheap tt crap on auction selling all the time.. even while shops have much lower buyouts available. so something is obviously wrong with how the malls work..

adding a cheap rental/mini-auction near all the tp's would further decrease the usefulness of malls.



most of the unique gear is already owned by players that don't own shops.. so they use the auction to sell their gear. for a shop owner to specialize in that unique gear he would have to pay the auction buyouts or hopefully bid lower then market rate then resale at a higher markup. which of course nobody wants as that just increases prices and inflation.

then theres the catch 22 situation that if a shop owner (take slithers recent blight for instance) sets prices on nice crafted gear too much under auction the resellers snap it up and put it on auction at a higher markup.. coupled with the auction fee's the resellers pay, prices then inflate even more.

I agree with you, and would only add that my perspective is that there is an opportunity in the fact that people aren't currently motivated to go to malls. If we can find ways of giving that motivation, by value-adding (see our website for how WE'RE trying to achieve that), then more people will come to the malls and every shop owner benefits, as well as the economy as a whole.

Originally Posted by Rayne Jade

In addition... there is another good reason NOT to compare what happens in EU to real life. Real life land has a price on it because they are not making land anymore - pretty certain we found it all. MA can (and does) make new land, estates, etc whenever they want... and without warning. Market speculation is extremely unwise in this universe since we the players have absolutely NO IDEA what is coming next and NO WAY to find out.

Good point. I agree.

Originally Posted by QuintusMagnus

Well, in terms of him buying it and selling it at a higher rate, it's only inflationary if it's unnecessary. IF, however, he's doing something like, say, bringing a collection of rare items together that a player will be able to purchase on demand and which perhaps even have relevance to each other (a whole suit of rare armor, for example) then he might in point of fact be providing a "value added" service for which there's no real measured inflation.

Yep value adding is the way to attract people to shops. There are things that auction can't do - like show you an entire suit of armour in one hit (IF you know where to shop, of course - but it's a shopkeeper's responsibility to make that known).

Auction really is a very easy way out for the majority of people, and allows one to be VERY lazy in terms of trade. This makes shops looks harder to use than they actually are. Whenever I give myself a tour of the malls, I'm always pleasantly surprised by all the interesting things I come across, and it's always an enjoyable experience. Like going to a bookshop instead of amazon.com.

[Acronoid]

NO the sky is not falling *djeez*
Shops are empty, because:
- we don't need that much shops
- shops are expensive to keep
- people hate the lag in shopping buildings
- auction is easier
- knowing a few crafters is more eco
- every second in game not hunting is a wasted one

About ppl chipping out:
many people chip out, some of them come back and kick thereselfs for chipping out in the first place. New players come and buy the chips. It's evolution I guess, not only EU, but the playerbase is dynamic too.
EU population is growing (getting more crowdy if you compare) so the sky is not falling.

[Kaiser]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Is Entropia universe's Real Cash Economy crashing?
I was looking for a new set of plates and i could not help noticing that over 50% of all shops in all shopping malls were closed/empty/fee not payed... The shops that were open hardly had any items in them...???
Markups at auction are insane last few days and even some of my ingame friends are chipping out after years of playing!
Am i the only one noticing this and if not, what could we (as players) possibly do about it?

First off, congratulations on posting the 400 trillionth version of this thread. Try searching before you post, you will find 99% of what you are thinking of asking has already been answered.

(Kaiser puts on his chicken little suit)


THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

First off, every few months someone posts a thread asking if the EU economy is crashing. All economies readjust themselves sometimes.

I would not worry about shops being empty etc. It for the most part has ALWAYS been that way. There is nothing new about that. Markups have always at times changed drastically and people have always chipped out and left. You are observing things that for the most part have always been happening. Whent they first announced the malls all of the veteran players knew what was going to happen. They would be popular for a little while then go to hell. This is the same thing that always happens when MA releases something new. Everyone made a big deal about banks and now there seems to be a common complaint, nobody uses them, just like I said would happen.

The point is dont buy into alarmism. The EU economy is just experiencing another period of readjustment.

As far as the shops are concerned, the fact is, that as long as the auction is up and running, the malls are poorly built so you lag like hell, and there is no way to find the item you want to buy unless you spend hours searching all the shops and lagging your ass off, or you know the people who own the shops worth shopping at so you can ask if they have what you want then the shops will NEVER do well or flourish.

[QuintusMagnus]

Originally Posted by MadMark

I can only say what I find. I chk the auction, then hunt the shops for a better price & 75% of the time, I can find it cheaper on the auction. I might have to wait for it, but some good deals are to be found in auction IF you have the patience...

Which is, of course, the whole point of shops. Time value of money. After all, if food wasn't worth so much to you RIGHT NOW, you'd put down the bag of chips and go plant some potatoes in your back yard or buy some the next time you go to Idaho or Ireland.

It's all relative.

[Zib Black Onyx]

I like turtles.