A10x revisited

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Alice

actually, believe it or not, i think making them stop dropping is a good change
...
and that is a good thing imo

I've argued the same point before -- A-series was a bit of a mistake, and it's better late than never to do something about it.

Remember, it's not your absolute eco, but your eco relative to everyone else that matters, so with A-series amps, nothing but laser was viable for beginners. If you remove A-series from the equation by dilution and reseller hoarding, melee, BLP, and whatever new stuff MA comes out with all have about the same eco and are all nice options.

The option is always there to put in your PEDs and buy one, but for those who can't or won't (especially beginners), a world with less people using A-amped laser is a better one.

[Moonbiter]

Originally Posted by EarlVonKippler

looking at the auction data i can only wonder if the current prices are a bubble or are the new base. i mean you can look at the sellers and bidders on the a-amps and see the same people over and over. okay, that is common, but then you look at the auction data and see a dramatic, and i mean dramatic, price JUMP on each amp all around the same week. nothing happened at that time that would have made them all jump at the same time.

so the price has obviously been artifically inflated, but now what? seems everyone believes +2000 for an a105 is reasonable when +1000 two months ago was pushing it. and it had been steady at +800 to +1000 for months and months before hand and then POW double. i am glad i got mine (at +500) when i did, it turned out a good option, but now that i want a second only a few months later i am blown away.

I think you, and most of others poster miss the point. Amps have stopped droping almost 1.5years ago now. The problem is, it took very long for this (now common) knowledge to sink in. At first people haven't even noticed that they stopped droping in the first place.

And finally, when a critical mass of people knowing the fact, and all consequences was reached, the market simply exploded. There the resellers and investors jumped in as well, and made the situation even worse.

It's the same as in RL share/currency/option and other markets. Very large number of investors, especially new ones are driven by pure emotions, and not by fundamental analysis. Though in this case, even fundamental analysis is in favor of the current price trend. Omegaton amps are unlimited (+1), increase weapon economy (+2), no longer drop (+3), are a good investment (+4), and adds dmg/sec as well (+5). (L amps while do increase damage as well, however they do so at the cost of overall eco.)

And there you go, emotions+fundamental analysis in favor is an explosive cocktail, and it was only a matter of time before it would go BOOM. In fact, i was expecting this much earlier than it happened, prices were really wondefully stable for a long time.

I think there might be a temporal "bouncing back" of prices after such sharp rise, but that's it. Accept the current prices, and move on, cause nothing will change. (And i really doubt MA will introduce more eco options, cause they wouldn't have stopped amp drops in the first place, or made L ones much more eco). So, if you need amp, buy now before it's too late, if you're just observer, well, accept the fact.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Doer

I've argued the same point before -- A-series was a bit of a mistake, and it's better late than never to do something about it.

Remember, it's not your absolute eco, but your eco relative to everyone else that matters, so with A-series amps, nothing but laser was viable for beginners. If you remove A-series from the equation by dilution and reseller hoarding, melee, BLP, and whatever new stuff MA comes out with all have about the same eco and are all nice options.

The option is always there to put in your PEDs and buy one, but for those who can't or won't (especially beginners), a world with less people using A-amped laser is a better one.

I hear that the same argument was applied to the crafted A20x amps as well - too eco, so they were replaced with the E-Amp series. Same damage but much worse economy.

Following this train of thought, it does mean that the holders of these amps, especially the A204, A106, A105, A203 and A104, are now in a comparable position to holders of MMs and Imp MKIIs a couple of years ago. They have a weapon which is more eco than the competition so they can kill more quickly and more economically - not just in ammo costs but in terms of fap and armour decay as well.

A101 = dmg +3 (~tt+140)
A102 = A101 +4 (~tt+150)
A103 = A102 +5 (~tt+160)
A104 = A103 +2 (~tt+550)
A105 = A104 +2 (~tt+2.5k)
A106 = A105 +2 (~tt+3.7k?)

Figures taken from memory from looking at the ingame auctions last night, so likely to be slightly out.

Now, what strikes me about this is that the increase in damage is not reflected in the increase in price over the less powerful amps. Therefore I expect either the 101/102 to drop in price or the 103 to continue to rise, possibly to somewhere around the +250 to +300 mark. Or both.

[the-unknown]

Originally Posted by Doer

Remember, it's not your absolute eco, but your eco relative to everyone else that matters, so with A-series amps, nothing but laser was viable for beginners. If you remove A-series from the equation by dilution and reseller hoarding, melee, BLP, and whatever new stuff MA comes out with all have about the same eco and are all nice options.

The option is always there to put in your PEDs and buy one, but for those who can't or won't (especially beginners), a world with less people using A-amped laser is a better one.

In other words, those who already have the a10x amps now are the new ubers (especially those with a104 or better).

[EarlVonKippler]

well, i do have several a-amps so i am nnot crying that i am missing out on anything, and do actually appreciate the added market value to my avatar. it more than makes up for the losses i took in my stockpiled generic leather, paint, molisk teeth, and the minor losses i took in 5b and ghost prices.

now moonbiter, it may sound like i miss the point but i didn't mean to. i have been following the trend since day one and collect several in anticipation of this day. i guess i just didn't expect such a dramatic rise after such a long plateau. so perhaps all these threads truly have increased the demand, both by players and resellers, adn thus increased the price rapidly.

i guess you could say i am worried about this price. how long will it hold, how real is it? that kind of question, in love with is selling a boatload of a-amps on this forum while most of us have looked at the thread, not many have bid. granted a large percentage of us already have the amps and dont care about the sale, but it is interesting never-the-less.

i am saddened by pe-auction breaking down this last month so we can't look at unsold amp prices over the course of this latest price ramp.

[Nihilist]

Originally Posted by EarlVonKippler

i guess you could say i am worried about this price. how long will it hold, how real is it? that kind of question, in love with is selling a boatload of a-amps on this forum while most of us have looked at the thread, not many have bid. granted a large percentage of us already have the amps and dont care about the sale, but it is interesting never-the-less.

this is an easy one.. if we bid on them here on the forum we will get shut down with thats too low.. thus no bids will be taken seriously.

we know we can get them in the current price fall a lot cheaper for the next few weeks before it bumps up again. - ; )

everyone is trying to cash in on the price hike.. so naturally the price is starting to fall and many resellers are loosing money on auction fee's.

once the current group trying to cash in on the initial jump in value has sold their amps or had them returned in unsold auctions they'll put them back in storage and the price will start to rise again.

[EarlVonKippler]

also just noticed something, i think pe-auction thinks the newest amp prices to be off the mark and are not being registered.

[Karmic]

Prices on the 101 are already well off their peak and falling. I've been watching fairly close since I thought they were going up way too fast, and sure enough, now that the orders (resellers) are all filled, the bidders have gone away. If you list your A101 with a startbid of TT+140 today, it's going to go unsold. It's just not reasonable for the low end amps, most newbies are not going to pay TT+150 for an amp that's really only for their opalo. Once they've played enough to consider using amps they'll be looking at the higher ones.

Here's hoping melee amps drop with a reasonable eco.

[binfordw]

Originally Posted by Karmic

. It's just not reasonable for the low end amps, most newbies are not going to pay TT+150 for an amp that's really only for their opalo. Once they've played enough to consider using amps they'll be looking at the higher ones.

Here's hoping melee amps drop with a reasonable eco.

I still use a 101 daily They aren't just for new players.

Just like the other amps, yes, the majority of reselling from this "boom" has calmed down, and prices are stabilizing. If you think 101's won't continue to go up in price in the longrun I think your sorely mistaken.


I don't think will see Melee amps, ever.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by binfordw

I still use a 101 daily They aren't just for new players.

Just like the other amps, yes, the majority of reselling from this "boom" has calmed down, and prices are stabilizing. If you think 101's won't continue to go up in price in the longrun I think your sorely mistaken.


I don't think will see Melee amps, ever.

Likewise, one on the Opalo, one on the P2a.

And again, I also think that any downturn in the average sale price will be only temporary. When the news that A10x were no longer dropping, the A104 went from +80 or so to +180 in a week, then dropped back to +80. Now look at them. And compare this with other desireable weapons that no longer drop like MLs, DOAs or Camos and their price history.

I think the idea of melee amps unlikely. If they were implemented then they would probably be (L) and crafted, with similar eco to the (L) weapon amps. And markup would then make these uneco as well IMHO.