Prices - crazy (why market manipulators are helped?)

[aia]

Originally Posted by Mkdesign

Nobody said you needed a Boar?
Look into the Serum or the Aurora armor sets.
I'm sure one of these will fit your needs.

Boar: 19/16/16 impact/cut/stab 16/12 burn/penetration
Aurora: 15/14/12, 7/11
Serum: 19/15/15 6/7 (acid: 16)
That is, for people who like boar because it's good at bots aswell as normal mobs, useful among miner bots on TI I guess, the other two armors perform about as well as ghost. I don't say their bad, aurora is in general terms simular to Ghost and Serum is simular to Gremlin, having good acid protection (I think of Kreltins).

It's somewhat also about hunting style: If your hunting style is "melee" (that is, rush/TP into a swarm of mobs and start spraying), giving a lot of hits, with repairable armor you pay at repair terminal, with (L) armor you pay at auctioneer (if the part is generally availible). With an (L) armor, that hunting style can be a bit of a luxury.

I did a quick check on auction: Helmets, aurora (F): 112%, No serum (F) helmet, Aurora(M): 117%, no serum (M) helmet.
Harness: For F, neither aurora nor serum availible. For M, aurora 139% BO at low condition, I coun't find any serum(F) harness.
(I browsed auction manually, it's possible that I've missed something.)

For (L) armor to be useful in the long run, it should be possible to get replacement parts in a reliable way. I didn't consider this any scientific approach and I didn't visit the shops I know of (slither, aukatuma and Buzz).
Also, another problem with (L) armor is you're "living" on CND you also have to pay transport fee and you can't visit the shops on the planet to search. (Luckily, on CP at least you can buy from auction without penalty.)

[Mkdesign]

Originally Posted by aia

Boar: 19/16/16 impact/cut/stab 16/12 burn/penetration
Aurora: 15/14/12, 7/11
Serum: 19/15/15 6/7 (acid: 16)
That is, for people who like boar because it's good at bots aswell as normal mobs, useful among miner bots on TI I guess, the other two armors perform about as well as ghost. I don't say their bad, aurora is in general terms simular to Ghost and Serum is simular to Gremlin, having good acid protection (I think of Kreltins).

It's somewhat also about hunting style: If your hunting style is "melee" (that is, rush/TP into a swarm of mobs and start spraying), giving a lot of hits, with repairable armor you pay at repair terminal, with (L) armor you pay at auctioneer (if the part is generally availible). With an (L) armor, that hunting style can be a bit of a luxury.

I did a quick check on auction: Helmets, aurora (F): 112%, No serum (F) helmet, Aurora(M): 117%, no serum (M) helmet.
Harness: For F, neither aurora nor serum availible. For M, aurora 139% BO at low condition, I coun't find any serum(F) harness.
(I browsed auction manually, it's possible that I've missed something.)

For (L) armor to be useful in the long run, it should be possible to get replacement parts in a reliable way. I didn't consider this any scientific approach and I didn't visit the shops I know of (slither, aukatuma and Buzz).
Also, another problem with (L) armor is you're "living" on CND you also have to pay transport fee and you can't visit the shops on the planet to search. (Luckily, on CP at least you can buy from auction without penalty.)

Not denying any of your points
But I feel confident that the supply problem will become less and less a problem over time.
Plates are still available to patch up some, aswell.

[aia]

Originally Posted by Mkdesign

Not denying any of your points
But I feel confident that the supply problem will become less and less a problem over time.
Plates are still available to patch up some, aswell.

I once asked a crafter about parts to an (L) armor (orca), and the answer I got was basically, there is too low demand. Also, some parts are harder to make; on orca, the harness that requires ultra cold fabric which requires ultra coold fabric BP and phasm wool, and other parts required robot power amplifier, looted from boxes on beacon missions. This means, that he was reluctant to give me parts, because the harness was expensive to make, I had to get the whole armor. But he coun't make the armor either, because there was no robot power amplifiers availible at auction for BO. I think it ends up to, crafters who want to sell (L) armors basically have to craft them on demand (so they don't have too many (F) and no (M) part or other way around) because of rarity of some of the ingredients.

Also, there is the practical problem of "item points" in shops: If armor is sold in shop, rather than on auction, there can be only a few number of armor sets. And the crafter probablty then wants to concentrate on the bestsellers, to be able to have a few sets ready (M+F, 7 (ideally) parts each). Also, if he wants to sell in shop, he must be aware that someone might buy helmets or footguards or the hard-to-craft part, meaning he will have a hard time to offer complete sets.

[Sirhc]

Originally Posted by aia

For (L) armor to be useful in the long run, it should be possible to get replacement parts in a reliable way. I didn't consider this any scientific approach and I didn't visit the shops I know of (slither, aukatuma and Buzz).
Also, another problem with (L) armor is you're "living" on CND you also have to pay transport fee and you can't visit the shops on the planet to search. (Luckily, on CP at least you can buy from auction without penalty.)

That’s the problem really, for (L) to really compete with repairable items it needs to be reasonably priced and available. People look at thier options and are willing to pay outrageous prices for (R) items because they are always available and less of a hassle.

I really don't mind the (L) system but make it "user friendly" and I think more people would adopt it. I know as soon as prices dropped on (L) ore and enmatter detectors I was more willing to use them. If they suddenly became less available and more expensive well I would use them less and use my (R) more.

I know when I sign on I don't want to spend more than 5-10minutes looking for items to use on my next hunting/mining expedition. If I had to continually search for days just to get Serum Thighs for that next hunt well that keeps me out of the field and away from doing what I like to do generating decay which MA could be pocketing.

Seems odd really. I guess if I were in MA's shoes I would be trying to get as many people decaying as I possibly could so I could make more money. How do you get people to decay in EU? There are so many ways but just to answer my own question here are a few: First make it easy to get your gear of choice if its (L), second give tangible results to leveling up, and keep those "carrots" in everyone's head everytime they loot or claim or click to craft.

Maybe its just me but I get the feeling that to many people get to a point in EU where they see no point in skilling further, no point in tracking down that (L) item with 200% markup, no point in hunting bigger mobs to loot better gear, they simply hit a daunting wall which only IMO seems to stifle advancement.

MA needs to promote participation. They are getting better at it in some areas but others they seem to be cutting their own feet off.

Who knows maybe I am thinking to much into all of this and we are just "on hold" in EU until CE2 is implemented, it would make more sense to me if that were the case.

[GoNi]

Originally Posted by aia

I did a quick check on auction: Helmets, aurora (F): 112%, No serum (F) helmet, Aurora(M): 117%, no serum (M) helmet.
Harness: For F, neither aurora nor serum availible. For M, aurora 139% BO at low condition, I coun't find any serum(F) harness.
(I browsed auction manually, it's possible that I've missed something.)

Did you do a quick search at well known armorcrafters shops?

I don´t think so!

I know that Auktuma has serum parts very regular at his shop, other armor crafters supply L armor at a regular base, too.
At PA Mall there are at least 3 shops of armor crafters and there are 3 Malls and a lot of NoMall-Shops, too!

If the material is the problem for the crafter, go get all the parts the crafter he needs and let him do some clicks for you providing the material.
You surely will find crafters that are willing to do the clicks just for skillgain and a small compensation for their time.

[aridash]

Originally Posted by GoNi

Did you do a quick search at well known armorcrafters shops?

how do you perform a "quick" search of the shops? do you have a method which doesnt take up 20-30 miuntes that could otherwise be spent decaying as Sirhc points out? for me, (L) will always be hamstrung unless i can get it right away, when i want it. The fact that even (L) drops are so damn rare and im encouraged to spend either money on unL or time hunting for purchases makes me wonder exactly what MA's business model really relies on.

[aia]

Originally Posted by GoNi

I know that Auktuma has serum parts very regular at his shop, other armor crafters supply L armor at a regular base, too.

I did a quick check in his shop in Port Atlantis (floor 3) and didn't fidn more than a few parts. I also checked Buzz' shop floor 3 in Twin Peaks without results. (The shops had ghost, and a few Infiltrator parts; though they are good armors it was not what I was looking for).

Originally Posted by GoNi

At PA Mall there are at least 3 shops of armor crafters and there are 3 Malls and a lot of NoMall-Shops, too!

I visited the ones I knew about (not slithers shop, this time). As a side note, moving around in the mall in Twin Peaks is awkward, with the lag I get about a minute after arriving there makes "windowshopping" pretty hard.

Originally Posted by GoNi

If the material is the problem for the crafter, go get all the parts the crafter he needs and let him do some clicks for you providing the material.

Actually, I had some chomper(*) wool, but (surprise!) didn't have the BP for ultra cold fabric, and neither did he know anyone who had it. As for Robot Amplifiers; normally when I do beacon mission the team leader collects the loot and hands out the value in PEDs. It means, that unless I in advance know that I'm going to need those amplifiers (so I can "buy out" them from team for market value), I will not have any rare components.

Originally Posted by GoNi

You surely will find crafters that are willing to do the clicks just for skillgain and a small compensation for their time.

I don't know many crafters (on my FL) that are able to make that kinds of armor (for instance, having a set of BPs). For instance, how many crafters has complete sets of BPs for Orca and, in this example, Serum? Also, if the BP is (L), the crafter probably want money back for the "clicks" also, especially if the BP(s) involved carry a significant markup. Also, there are crafters who probably want to sell for no less than "market value".

Now we're pretty close to what I said in a previous post: As long as market is small, the crafters will have to make parts on-demand. (Meaning, of course, they will need to have time and dedication. And they must be reachable, be in their shop in regular times and/or letting people add them to their FL.) It can be a boomer if they are at CND and have decided to stay there mining for two weeks...

Another comment, about the economy of (L) armor: A general hunter probably don't notice the day-to-day decay of his L armor. You can't put it in repair terminal, and notice that decay is slightly lower than the non-(L). So, for most hunters (with the exception of the ones who doesn't carefully remove all platings, put it in TT to check the sum, and then reaplly the platings to see the decay), instead of steady repairs, giving an idea about the "decay cost" of a hunt, the effective cost of having an L armor is zero... until the day parts need to get replaced. And then it's some hundred ped for each part. It's also hard to see if you hunted in a expensive way on a specific run (by letting yourself getting swarmed to much for instance - so you try to hunt more careful next time).


(*) I had phasm wool to

[GoNi]

OK, time to come back to topic.

The original complaint was that mid level items raise that much in price, due to resellers and the lack of drops.

Now look at this --> Another JAG Part dropped

I can´t believe that there are so much whinners around, that always complain about the not dropping items, and then we find another thread where someone looted such a item that "never" drop.

I am out of this thread now, unsubscribe.
To much whinnning in here!
Call me if you want some cheese!

[Nihilist]

i really don't think that was the topic of this thread.

[aia]

Originally Posted by GoNi

OK, time to come back to topic.

The original complaint was that mid level items raise that much in price, due to resellers and the lack of drops.

Now look at this --> Another JAG Part dropped

Yay! Back to hunting then.

(I don't expect JAG though, in fact, the mob i usually hunt doesn't drop any armor at all, the closest to armor I get is FAP-15/FAP-18 Well, indirectly maybe, I've been able to complete at least one set of Bodyguard during the time.)