Prices - crazy (why market manipulators are helped?)

[codrutyasad]

Originally Posted by GoNi

With every big HoF I manage to hit, my gear gets improved.

There is no need to drop insane amounts of MMs, ModFAPs and other UBER gear. The great advantage of this UBER gear is, that it is rar, very efficent and not everybody got it.

I am using Korss400 or P5a, thats enough to kick most mobs ass! I don´t wanna hunt Dasp. Ok if I have a MM I may change my mind, but actually I am not interested in hunting the biggest of big mobs, as I don´t have the gear to do it

OK I think the mid Armors Jag, Tiger are overpriced, but I don´t need to buy it. Phantom, Ghould does the job as good as this rar looted armors.

And yes we all need goals to continue playing. I for myself have goals!
I am not that rich that I can afford Adj. or ModFAP, but maybe if I hit a real big one, I will buy at least an adjusted FAP, sometime!

To the weapons, there are so many many L weapons that are really great for hunting.

If you can´t afford any L items, what the hell you want a MM , you can´t afford the ammo to use it all the day

Please stop whinning and adept to the situation you are in ingame

Thats all I have to say, thanks for listening!

pay attention please... that was not what i was talking about...

ty

[aridash]

one thing that bugs me is the way this discussion aways starts talking about uber items. i dont think anyone expects the really uber items, the ImpFaps, Supremacy, Mod DAR and such, to start dropping like wool. its the middle stuff thats missing relative to the player base.

[Rayne Jade]

Getting easier to just quote my own posts than to rewrite them in another thread... I am starting to see how MA Support works...

Originally Posted by Rayne Jade

Your pain is shared... believe me it is. 90% of the players started AFTER this game went Gold. In the pre-gold day (as the story goes) Shadow parts were so common THEY WERE TTed!! Those of us not rich and not equipped so well will continue to do everything ingame inefficently. Those that were fortunate enough to get in early will use the IMK2, MM, and uber armors (and those amps you speak of). Such is life in EU... this will not change. Once you come to grips with this you will be happier. I know I am. There is a class system in EU.. The "Haves" and the "Have nots". I know I am a "Have Not" and I am OK with that, now. I realized it about a year ago.

Good luck to all

[Sirhc]

There will always be market manipulators and people willing to pay way to much for items. It was strange but when MA introduced (L) items it was supposed to help curb inflation since new people would flock to the (L) and use it all the time. Well.......it had the opposite effect. Repairable items skyrocketed in perceived value and (L) in many cases is not readily available especially if its an item that is useful. Many times a great (L) will be manipulated just as bad as a great repairable.

OK then you look at something like the Korss series of weapons which are decently priced easily maxed and used by many. Suddenly EU has a population explosion of eco hunters all scrapping for the same piece of the pie at a certain level.

Does this really hurt MA? well if it did then I don't think we would have seen the squeeze of useful repairable items and (L) ones. Money is coming in from both sides.

The bad part of all this is all of this "balancing" is slowly making EU boring to an extent. I am torn in a way were I think uber items do need to be rare but I don't think they need to be impossibly rare. I know from a personal level I have deposited more in PE/EU when I am winning than when I am loosing. Seems odd to say that but when I got an ATH (way way back in the day 2k PED allo with no great items) I actually felt more confident in the system and pushed towards upgrading my avatar even more.

Overall I think when players are happy and see tangible benefits from leveling up and upgrading gear they will continue to do so. Happy players usually mean happy depositors since they feel they are getting value from their deposits.

I sometimes think MA is forgetting the "fun" factor when they make changes like Ambus and Spiders getting harder or deposits going deeper. I don't mind them making things harder but make it more worth my while to hunt them or try and detect certain resources. If its just more of the same but costs players more well eventually people will not find any value in their deposits.

Keep the current player base happy and leveling and they will continue to deposit and probably recommend EU to others. There should always be EU carrots to strive for but making things near impossible............well I think we see the effects of that as it stands today.

[Leaf Arwen]

Originally Posted by Sirhc

There will always be market manipulators and people willing to pay way to much for items. It was strange but when MA introduced (L) items it was supposed to help curb inflation since new people would flock to the (L) and use it all the time. Well.......it had the opposite effect. Repairable items skyrocketed in perceived value and (L) in many cases is not readily available especially if its an item that is useful. Many times a great (L) will be manipulated just as bad as a great repairable.

OK then you look at something like the Korss series of weapons which are decently priced easily maxed and used by many. Suddenly EU has a population explosion of eco hunters all scrapping for the same piece of the pie at a certain level.

Does this really hurt MA? well if it did then I don't think we would have seen the squeeze of useful repairable items and (L) ones. Money is coming in from both sides.

The bad part of all this is all of this "balancing" is slowly making EU boring to an extent. I am torn in a way were I think uber items do need to be rare but I don't think they need to be impossibly rare. I know from a personal level I have deposited more in PE/EU when I am winning than when I am loosing. Seems odd to say that but when I got an ATH (way way back in the day 2k PED allo with no great items) I actually felt more confident in the system and pushed towards upgrading my avatar even more.

Overall I think when players are happy and see tangible benefits from leveling up and upgrading gear they will continue to do so. Happy players usually mean happy depositors since they feel they are getting value from their deposits.

I sometimes think MA is forgetting the "fun" factor when they make changes like Ambus and Spiders getting harder or deposits going deeper. I don't mind them making things harder but make it more worth my while to hunt them or try and detect certain resources. If its just more of the same but costs players more well eventually people will not find any value in their deposits.

Keep the current player base happy and leveling and they will continue to deposit and probably recommend EU to others. There should always be EU carrots to strive for but making things near impossible............well I think we see the effects of that as it stands today.

Totally agree with all you say here

Question is if any actions from MA indicates they realize this and does anything about it, my guess is no not yet.
Hope they do it really soon cause the inflation takes the edge of it for many players.

//Arwen

[Doer]

Originally Posted by CAC

What has made things worse is that a very good protecting armour has become so ridiculously cheap...... Ghost

Noobs are spoilt with a full set for +90 or so. this means that the neccessary steps needed in EU have gone.

No longer do people hunt snables and daiks till the graduate etc. The depo $20 buy ghost with no skills and go hunt mobs which are too big for them. The next mistake imo was the Korss 400 maxing at lvl 14ish. This was a very eco, fastish (57 per min) pistol that, when amped with a 105, did far better avg damage than a maddox +dante did for a player who had just unlocked coolness.

these 2 things took away the noob period and made brand new players the same as we were after 6-8 months. These new players who are hunting trox in plated ghost and getting hit with every shot, then want to hunt hoggs etc.

people are in too much of a rush to become uber before they are even mid-level.

Yes, that's a very good point. Before (L) SIB weapons, it really required a lot of skilling and time to have a chance doing ok on bigger weapons, and people realized this. Now, the Korss blunder and ghost overproduction make it seem at first as if everything will come cheap and easy, giving people misconceptions.

Originally Posted by safara

Yes, this is how I read it as well.

The uber toys will always be uber toys (IMMKII, MM etc etc), but what we have here is another hard playing person hitting the glass ceiling.

This cieling is not just in skills but in gear as well.

Once you have the Grem/Ghost/5b/2600/vigi/ etc etc etc etc (say $400 worth of stuff) - the attainable lower mid level stuff, then there is nothing to aim for. Realisticly.

Yes, Jag, ML35 would be nice etc, and these are the nextish step up. However you require $4500 to do this

So the jump from $400 to $4500 is say over 1000%

For gear that is say 50% better ???

This does not compute. No point spending HUGE money for little gain, unless you are in the investment game (the reason for the huge prices)

I am a gamer and like shooting things, I am not an investment type.

There is no middle ground anymore. But this seems to be what MA are after when they say they expect the life cycle of participants to be 6-12 months.

And that is just crazy.

The middle ground is ghost and Korss H400, but ghost is ridiculously cheap because it's unlimited and can be manufactured cheaply and Korss H400 is ridiculously easy to max because MA released it before thinking through the SIB. That's exactly the problem that has prompted the (L) economy and the (L) economy will be the solution. Patience, grasshopper, and SIBites will have their day to grow up and play at their skill level in reasonable cost steps -- at least, if MA's plans are remotely what i expect they are.

[Sirhc]

Originally Posted by Leaf Arwen

Totally agree with all you say here

Question is if any actions from MA indicates they realize this and does anything about it, my guess is no not yet.
Hope they do it really soon cause the inflation takes the edge of it for many players.

//Arwen

Well just IMO its either two things they realize it and from a business standpoint its making their numbers look good so there is no need to change it. In fact if their overall numbers look better from setting up EU this way I don't think we will see it change for the better(well better for the participants).

OR

They are so caught up in CE2, CKI, and China that they don't have the resources to properly manage the situation.

I guess it could be a combination of both of these or something else only MA can see from their perspective.

I am biased in my opinions in a way because I am only seeing this from a players perspective. So as a consumer I want the most bang for my buck and if its just not happening I start to find other things to spend my money on.

Contrary to what others might think I don't necessarily want EU to revert back to PE but I think there are elements of PE that made it extremely enjoyable that have been forgotten.

I do worry about EU at times. I won't go so far to say the "sky is falling" or this "bubble will burst" type crap but I do think participant apathy brought on by way to many money squeeze changes can be a detriment.

Just a knee jerk reaction to implementations could be "why go explore a new planet if I get the same experience and my money goes just about as far as it does in the current state of EU?"

PE/EU has had some unpleasant stigmas attached to it over the years. MA needs to break these or it will matter not how many planets they implement or how many different game engines they try. If they truely want to be a World of Warcrack competitor they need to really start to understand what makes that MMO such a huge draw in the first place and stack those up against what they have in EU.

[MistyDawn]

Originally Posted by Doer

That's exactly the problem that has prompted the (L) economy and the (L) economy will be the solution.

If MA considered it a problem all they need do is flip switch and stop dropping (L) items. Then once the ones that are out are used up they are all gone...

Problem solved.

Who knows what the future holds?



(whatever happens, I hope they start dropping non-(L) again though...)

[Doer]

Originally Posted by MistyDawn

If MA considered it a problem all they need do is flip switch and stop dropping (L) items. Then once the ones that are out are used up they are all gone...

Problem solved.

Who knows what the future holds?



(whatever happens, I hope they start dropping non-(L) again though...)

The Korss could be removed that way, yes. But, the playing base has already gotten used to it and it's a question of which would create greater uproar. You may have noticed that it's less common now, however. Instead, they will increase the power of weapons and mobs alike over time to marginalize all this mediocre UL gear (mediocre for the vast majority without skills for it). This is already being discussed in another thread here somewhere that is also currently running.

Expecting large quantities of UL gear to drop is short sighted and not really realistic. UL gear is dropping rarely and will continue to as Marco himself has said, but the old non-SIB stuff is going to become increasingly less relevant. No better way to resolve the inflation issue than push it to the side and make it irrelevant IMO. Only a (L) economy (ie creating a sink) can permanently solve the inflation/devaluation problems that plague RCEs. Witness ghost armor as the opposite extreme problem of UL gear.