Players are paying for the Paynova fraud?

[dbelinfante]

Originally Posted by DRDoom

There is definitely a loss!


-Player manage to get 250K ped ingame without MA having 25K US$ on their bank account.
-Players buys an IMK2 for 250K from an honest player.
-The host player withdraws his 250K (25K US$) from MA.

-This means that MA needs to pay out 25K US$, but didn't had an income for it first!

Wrong. The money was already there, put there by the player who bought the item.
MA does not lose a cent from this. The money withdrawn comes from other players, not from MA. MA in fact gains again, as they always do when money is withdrawn.

Who is going to pay for that 24,9K US$ you think ?

Asked and answered.

[Galadea]

Originally Posted by Looser

A company like mindark has insurance against these kinds of things, but i wouldnt be suprised if they by "goodwill" let us players pay it, instead of using the insurance.

Well if it wasn#t MA fault and they are not responsible for the security hole it will take time to get the money form the insurance company. And I think 150k $ is not that small amount for MA to pay out of their wallet. So the player will have to pay for the fraud, because MA surely had a plan what to do with those 150k $.

[Matrix]

MA still have the items that were bought with the fake peds, they could put them on auction. Wouldn't that solve the problem?

[dbelinfante]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Is this not the way it works in all real life situations?

Shops get "shop-lifters" in stealing stuff. Shops owners know this, and know that on average they will lose (Say) 5% of their stock in this manner. They don't just bend over, lube up, and take it. They add 5% to the price of everything they sell to cover the cost of what's being stolen. We, the honest shoppers, end up paying for what gets stolen.

Petrol stations have people drive off without paying for fuel. They don't just say "Oh well, there goes £100 of diesel." They put a fraction of a penny on every litre to cover the amount that gets stolen. We the honest car drivers pays for the stolen fuel.

Insurance companies suffer from fraudulent claims. To re-coup their losses they add a bit to every premium. We, the insured, end up paying.

So if you are right, and MA are recovering the lost money by reducing the loot, they are doing what everyone else in these cases does, by recovering it from the customers who do pay.

I find it strange that you find this surprising, or note-worthy.

Except MA has not lost any money.

Look, the only thing that happens when people get ped in-game without actually having paid for them is INFLATION.
Most countries in the world have experienced it at one time or other. Central banks just start printing more money, and soon enough, everyone is running around with their pockets full of 100K dollar bills. With which you cannot pay a loaf of bread.

Same in EU: If enough players could get 'free' peds, then all that would happen is that prices would rise. After all, if you got free ped, you would not think twice about paying 100K for an ML-35, an Adj FAP or what have you. If it got bad enough, MA would have to let go of the dollar/ped exchange rate, because if they didn't, THEN they would lose money. They'd be exchanging real dollars for currency that was no longer backed by real value (ie ped for dollar/euro).
So there is every reason for MA to act decisively in this situation, if not kept in check, it has long term consequences for everyone with assets in-game. But as long as (most of the) the total amount of ped in-game is still represented by real dollars/euro's outside, MA has not and will not lose money.

[aridash]

no we are not. if we were and was noticable in average loot, then frankly it would be the least of our worries.

there will be indemnity and insurance, then the locked accounts can be liquidated to recover cash and items re-dropped and will be sold draw in new deposits. negligable/zero impact.

[Frigid]

I dunno...last night was all HOFs and I saw 3 ATH's yesterday.

Seems like somebody is getting paid....ask Black Hawk and Beene

I think MA can eat those losses and they should have business insurance, too, which might cover this.

Assuming that MA would gouge us to cover these "losses" is too much even for a critic like me to swallow...

[Harmony.]

nonsense:



EntropiaTracker.com Loot Trends
Hunting Loot: + 18 % Mining Loot: + 42.74 % Crafting Loot: + 44.1 %

yes the sky is falling once again, should really get down here some time soon.

[Shadowsong]

Six players buy 100 chips for $100.
The house has $600.
Seven players are permitted to play, each with 100 chips.
One player wins, and presents his 700 chips to the house.
House says "Our rake is 10%, or $70, we owe you $630.... Far$K, we only have $600."

Does everyone see the problem now?

The only way the house can fix this, is to force the six losers to pay in more, or raise the rake, taking more from the winners. Neither of these options is particularly palatable to the players.

I agree that it is unlikely that MA will be prepared to take the loss, so that leaves insurance or the players.

It would be nice to be sure which one of those MA will choose.

[Galadea]

Originally Posted by Harmony.

nonsense:



EntropiaTracker.com Loot Trends
Hunting Loot: + 18 % Mining Loot: + 42.74 % Crafting Loot: + 44.1 %

yes the sky is falling once again, should really get down here some time soon.

You soo missed the point of this thread

[jak]

Originally Posted by dbelinfante

Except MA has not lost any money.

Look, the only thing that happens when people get ped in-game without actually having paid for them is INFLATION.
Most countries in the world have experienced it at one time or other. Central banks just start printing more money, and soon enough, everyone is running around with their pockets full of 100K dollar bills. With which you cannot pay a loaf of bread.

Same in EU: If enough players could get 'free' peds, then all that would happen is that prices would rise. After all, if you got free ped, you would not think twice about paying 100K for an ML-35, an Adj FAP or what have you. If it got bad enough, MA would have to let go of the dollar/ped exchange rate, because if they didn't, THEN they would lose money. They'd be exchanging real dollars for currency that was no longer backed by real value (ie ped for dollar/euro).
So there is every reason for MA to act decisively in this situation, if not kept in check, it has long term consequences for everyone with assets in-game. But as long as (most of the) the total amount of ped in-game is still represented by real dollars/euro's outside, MA has not and will not lose money.

M8,

I like your way of thinking, and you have the logic right in most all ways... MA does make money on all valid transactions in game regardless of price and everything.

However, take this example:

Plater A uses fraud to put 200,000 peds in-game. MA loses that 2.5% cut or whatever it is.

Player A uses the 200,000 peds to buy a IMKII from player B. MA loses some $ on fake peds as auction fee.

Player B withdraws 200,000 peds. MA now loses the $$ as there was no money in the system to cover it.

And you can say that Player B had to deposit to get the IMKII in the first place... Well, maybe, but what if he looted it? Then 100% of the cost is out from MA....

So, MA does lose as a company on this action. whether MA takes it out on the player base or not in the form of tweaking the system to make us pay is another story. Maybe MA did, maybe they did not do this, but if they did it would be very poor form in my opinion.

But for all we really know, MA is just packing in peds for the next mega ATH.... All the ATH's he have now days have been small