Players are paying for the Paynova fraud? - Page 5

aridash · 05-30-2008, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowsong

The only way the house can fix this...

I agree that it is unlikely that MA will be prepared to take the loss...

two assumptions, both unfounded.

Xen · 05-30-2008, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbelinfante

Wrong. The money was already there, put there by the player who bought the item.
MA does not lose a cent from this. The money withdrawn comes from other players, not from MA. MA in fact gains again, as they always do when money is withdrawn.

Asked and answered.

Not sure about that.

Imagine this scenario for all items that appreciate.

Player starts long ago, loots imp mk II. He keeps it until today, then sells it for 220k ped to one of these scammers. He then withdraws $22,000 and MA has not gotten that money from someone else.

In fact, this is how it works no matter how many times something was bought/sold. There has to be ped input to cover the withdraw. In this scammer case there wouldn't be.

That said, either this will be covered by insurance, or Paynova is liable.

Shadowsong · 05-30-2008, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by aridash

two assumptions, both unfounded.

Don't tell me, show me.

Show me how the house in my example fixes the problem. Very easy to dismiss an opinion or argument. Entirely different thing to formulate a counter argument.

aridash · 05-30-2008, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Don't tell me, show me.

you assume the house example bears any relevance and you assume they've lost anything at all. you assume that if they have lost, they havent reduced loses to an acceptable level that the house absorbs it. you've dismissed insurance/indemnity.

im just surprised people are so willing to think that MA have no contingency for such an event, or will try to claw back losses with in such a short time frame.

Shadowsong · 05-30-2008, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by aridash

you assume the house example bears any relevance and you assume they've lost anything at all. you assume that if they have lost, they havent reduced loses to an acceptable level that the house absorbs it. you've dismissed insurance/indemnity.

If you read the entire post, you will see that I have not dismissed insurance or indemnity. I have expressed my concern that we cannot be sure whether or not they have such. We could of course simply assume that they do, and relax.

Kyndig · 05-30-2008, 16:13

Taken from the client loader info about this situation...

A problem was discovered with a payment provider, Paynova, whose service Mindark uses to allow PED deposits into Entropia Universe.

A glitch in Paynova's software allowed for the deposit of PED without the corresponding amount in real funds being credited.

My thoughts...

The fault occurred within Paynova's system, a real amount of money was used from their services to buy ped when the money did not exist on the user's accounts. In order to provide the services Paynova offer they are required to have insurance. Their insurance company will pay to MA the value of the Ped's deposited, and then seek to reclaim it from the individuals involved. The fault doesn't lie with MA here, and if Paynova's insurance company fail to pay up, then the insurance company MA are also required to have to be allowed to offer their services will pay, and seek to recover it from Paynova. The accounts of the depositors will be locked until the problem is resolved because of the criminal matter involved, but the funds that were spent by them are required to be paid by the insurance company, not us.

The bad loot is your own fault.

Next bit...

A few former Entropia Universe participants exploited this glitch and got hold of illegal PED. As soon as the situation was verified, logs and transaction records were quickly analyzed using advanced tools developed by MindArk for this purpose, and the initial exploiters' accounts where locked, as well as those that had any association with the illegal PED. A thorough investigation commenced during Monday night and continued throughout Tuesday. Accounts whose holders were evaluated to have been acting in "good faith" were unlocked and all transactions validated. The initial exploiters' accounts remain locked.

Me again...

There is no justification for the opinion that they have taken the ped from our loot except that 'loot has been bad'. Loot has been good for the people on the HOF list the last few days, same as usual, and I have seen global after global flowing by in chat, and it's been much the same as ever for me too.

The only thing I can agree to as bad for us is the loss of high end equipment, although has it been verified that none of the transactions have been reversed? The few people I know who had their stuff bought have been allowed back ingame with the ped, but someone may have their item back.

Oh, and bear in mind the real bad guys here are those that deposited the fake ped in the first place, and have had their account locked. I think MA have handled this quite well all things considered.

fluske · 05-30-2008, 16:27

sorry,disagree here..you are just in a bad lotperiod..yesterday i was hunting at cp in team ,had 18 globals and 1 hof....no esis which i found strange cause i read big aurlis dropped esis so much lately