Resellers helped me!

[kira-red]

Originally Posted by Witte

I am not denying it happens or whether it has influence, I am just claiming it is by far NOT the main factor in what decides the price of stuff.

it is not the main factor in the price of all things. it can be the main factor in the price of some things. please pay attention. we are not talking about everything. we are talking of specifc items and scenarios.

once again, here is an example:

recently, a new avatar named "drink tothe brink" is manipulating the new wine market. he is doing a classic buy all immediately relist to push the price up artificially. the tactic is twice deceptive because the avatar is obviously a shill created by another player (in violation of the EULA) and the resulting artificial price will be seen as the common price for this item.

incidentally, I would really appriciate it if you would back up what you say with examples and references. otherwise, your statements are just hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Witte

Resellers do not play a key role, [blah blah blah] As an effect of this, most items will keep a stable market price [blah blah blah]

you say they don't play a key role and then you say because they don't they actually do play a key role by performing price equalization. you can't contradict yourself like that.

anyway. one more time - we are not talking about this kind of reseller (which we refer to as the ethical trader), rather we are talking about the exploitive reseller who has no interest in being fair and utilizes manipulative tactics to gouge as much profit as prossible because he is greedy.

do not start again about how everyone is a reseller because, while that is technically true, we are talking about two distinctly different people who are seperated by ethics. should you not recognise ethics then you would see these two people as the same and by extention you would void of ethics and, thus, the one the rest of us label a reseller rather than a trader.

Originally Posted by Witte

In dutch manipulation means control using decieving tactics.

we're not speaking dutch. anyway, I doubt it has that meaning. it might have that connetation - that manipulation is "seen" as being bad - but this has nothing to do with the defintion. I can manipulate the therostat in my house. how is that a decieving tactic?

ma·nip·u·la·tion (noun.)

1. The act or practice of manipulating.
2. The state of being manipulated.
3. Shrewd or devious management, especially for one's own advantage.

[French, from manipule, handful, as of grain, from Latin manipulus, sheaf, handful; see maniple.]

Originally Posted by Witte

And its lame tactics to attack me personally. It also shows you are frustrated.

I am not attacking you personally. my "grow up" comment, was out of line, but the rest is certainly not an attack. I am chastising you, though, for constantly repeating the same unsubstantiated rubblish, ignoring the provided examples and definitions, and continuously moving off-topic.

I'm not frustrated - I'm tired of having to explain the same thing over and over to you. please stay on topic and within the scope of the thread. do not generalize to provide your own justification for your pet theories.

Originally Posted by Witte

From this sentence i get the feeling you REALY totaly dont get it.

your comment tells me that you don't know what you are talking about. I am being very precise in describing a condition that most certainly exists and would not be present without the manipulation. to this you respond with this nonsense:

Originally Posted by Witte

EVERY single pec of the markup is artificial, and a product of what plays in our minds.

it most certainly is not. even, basic business 101 will teach you that. markup is equal to the cost of production plus the desired profit margin.

Originally Posted by Witte

And I will repeat it again, the only unfair way to influence that is through shillbidding or via interactive communication (with lying). Any other way is just plain correct and fair.

the first is a legality. remember what you said in the second part - this is basically, if it's not illegal then it's fair. this is a false statement. the law and moraility are different things. fairness has little to do with law. this is to say the law is not required to be fair.

if you are only concerned with the legal aspect and discard the ethics then, once again, you are the reseller we are talking about. in your case, reselling benefits you because you make money. just admit it. maybe it makes you feel better to take advantage of stupid people, as well.

Originally Posted by Witte

Maybe you think it isnt. Well, then you wont like capitalism. You wont like the western way of living.

stop putting words into my mouth and read what I have said. I have nothing against capitalism. I don't care much for exploitive capitialists, though. I believe they are unethical.

Originally Posted by Witte

You are simply not specific enough what effect you are talking about.

please stop. I cannot be any more specific, and it appears you cannot be any less vague.

Originally Posted by Witte

you claim people are decieved or manipulated as soon someone tries to resell somthing.

I said no such thing.

[Gildor]

The market determines the fair price for all items!

Who are you to tell me what markup I should place on my item? If I have something you want, and you don't want to pay my price then I guess your SOL.

Sellers want to sell stuff (call them traders, resellers, etc). They are all the same!

Buyers want to buy stuff (too many of them are cry babies - get over it! Your mom and dad are not playing the game and they won't appease your whining!).

They have to agree on the price in any market for a transaction to occur. Items are only overpriced if they are not selling. In that case, who loses? The seller (lost time, fees, etc).

I think a lot of the whiny buyers out there need to get some patience and stop blaming others for their problems (I can't afford what I want!). There is a lot of stuff in this game I cannot afford!

I've learned a lot about being patient, being savy with my purchases and sales. I sweat a lot more and enjoy the game at the level I can afford. I suggest you do the same and stop annoying us with your complaining.

[kira-red]

Originally Posted by Xen

And Kira-red, "what the market will bear" is capitalism.

no. it's not.

it is the mantra of the exploitive capitalist.

capitalism (noun.) An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

which leads us to...

free market

The production and exchange of goods and services without interference from the government or from monopolies.

which leads to...

mo·nop·o·ly –noun, plural -lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.

of course leading to....

oligopoly –noun
the market condition that exists when there are few sellers, as a result of which they can greatly influence price and other market factors.

thus, manipulation of the market through the creation of of an exploitive oligopoly/monopoly/cartel is not a free market and thus not capitalism.

additionally, the manipulation of the market to force higher priced for a product in the control of an oligopoly is the classic application of the "what the market will bear" axiom. in a free market, the market itself sets the price it is not forced upon it. again, we are talking about situations where the price is being forced.

Originally Posted by Xen

You may not like capitalism, but it is a legitimate economic model, irl and in this game. If you want to argue that capitalism is bad, that is really another debate...

I never said this nor was I asking for a debate on the mertits of capitalism. ]

one more time... I am asking for people to provide a situation where an explotive capitalist (unethical trader, parasitic reselller) had either directly or indirectly benefited them.

[Witte]

Your ignorace is bareble but your arrogance aint. Im out.

[Gildor]

Kira,

I guess to answer your question: How has a reseller helped me? They help me every day by finding the fair market price for items in the project entropia universe.

[Leviathan]

Resellers profit from the time you save. We stack items for you.... while you choose hunting we stay trading.... and yes, we make a profit by our hard and sometimes boring work...

[Macce]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

Resellers profit from the time you save. We stack items for you.... while you choose hunting we stay trading.... and yes, we make a profit by our hard and sometimes boring work...

Couldnt say it better myself
+Rep

[Dauntain]

Originally Posted by AVALON2

Do you get more upset that they are..

1.)Buying your stuff cheap
2.)Making a profit off your ignorance
3.)That they are succeeding and your not

Now dont get mad at me but I have attempted to enter the resellers market and time after time I have fail losing more than I gained. In reality being a reseller is just like any other proffession in this universe. You win some and You lose some so why be mad get glad.

I get most upset that they are:

4.) Clog up the auction listing with overpriced items that no one will buy. E.g., "Great--someone's selling a Bear Harness! Crap, they priced it at TT+1000!"

Perhaps it's not resellers doing this so much as the simple souls who choose to remain blissfully ignorant of market forces (and the fact that they're just bleeding their PED dry by posting such auctions). But I had to get that off my chest

--Dauntain

[Dauntain]

Originally Posted by Leviathan

Resellers profit from the time you save. We stack items for you.... while you choose hunting we stay trading.... and yes, we make a profit by our hard and sometimes boring work...

Indeedy, +rep my Academy friend.

That was the original idea for our Collective. You've got 3 wool that you can't more than TT for because the auction fees will eat you? Fine--sell it to me, and I'll add it to my stack.

Of course, I run a collective for my soc-mates, so I'll share that profit I made selling a bigger stack. If I didn't, I guess some would call me a dirty reseller

--Dauntain

[Xen]

Interesting how you took my post in a direction it had no place going...

capitalism, or "what the market will bear" <> monopoly. tell me just one instance in game where one person owns all of anything (aside from unique items ofc).