GSI Market manipulation

[Epictetus]

There's nothing morally wrong with chipping or selling skills. It's the free market and I'd much rather have my skills be worth something than non-selleable. And anyway, a lot of ubers got theirs by illegal autoclicking. Buying skills would be the only way to keep up with them.

[Wren]

Originally Posted by CareBear

I just throw my out there...
*edit*
Oh and as far as on topic goes... Market manipulation is a part of everyday business, and all the best/succesfull businesses do it... Walmart, Microsoft, McDonalds... etc... I have no problem with someone trying to do it in PE. In the end... people are going to pay what they are willing to pay... no one is forcing the purchase of the GSI's.

I agree with you.

I am a capitalist at heart and have faith in the quasi-free market that we have here on Calypso. However, staying true to my capitalist roots consumers must be made aware of possible price gouging.

This keeps the market competitive and put much more pressure on someone trying to control a large market share.

The reason I am all about making people aware is that the tools we use to keep us abreast of the Market will be affected as well. The auction viewer on the client loader and the new Mytwopecs.com among others.

We should be able to tell when someone is trying to over power a market.

We should have the choice wether we let this happen or use our economic weapons against the person.

The Calypso economy the new PvP.

[HunterZ]

all these manipulations are available only because last week GSI drop rate are very poor. i looted my last GSI 7 days ago. before i got 1-5 GSI per day and i bet not only i. i have nice store with GSI in my storage and now i selling them in auction. if some ressellers wanna buy them - i have no problems with this, because as soon they start to drop again it will be hard for them to buy all same situation take a place aprox 6-7 months ago - then prices from ~100 peds rised up to 200+, then GSI's started to drop again and prices slowly returned to 100. As many other things ingame GSI drops have cycle too. try to understand them and resellers and speculants didnt hurt u much.

[Cade]

SEVERAL valid points in here.... i dont have the time to read it through again while writing this, so ill hope i hit on them all...

1) this is almost entirely due to false inflation... over the past couple weeks, GSIs have risen steadily due to less drops, but tis is NOT due to that. this is due to a trader (with whom i am well-acquainted) not only buying out as many GSIs on the market as physically possible, bbut also 'allowing his storage to 'swallow' some of the ones that he might otherwise put on auction... and you wont figure out exactly who by checking auction, because i did this... apparently he used several secondary avaatars, including business acquaintances, to spread it out some what.
we had already talked about this, and he hinted at the 'possibility' of doing someting like this, and the benefits of investing in the procedure.
obviously he found the investors, because i did not offer to help.

2) nea, i agree. if i buy skills, i want to buy skills... i dont want 60% (a very realistic figure) of what i spend to be on the method of transfer!

3) MA has said they are going to flood the market with GSIs... i think we can all, hence, assume that it WILL continue to lower in price, minus a few bumps and wiggles due to stuff like this...

4) fiona, while i agree that lower chip prices would increase the market...

5) mud, i couldnt have said it better. i think the entire system is CRAP, and should be taken off the market...
on the other hand, by saying that i am a hypocrite, as i utilize the system to sell skills and make a fair bit of change.
unfortunately, mud, it isnt a question of 'do we want skill chipping or not?' if it were, i would scream, shout, and do tapdances on tables until the BS disappeared... but it WILL NOT disappear, it makes money for MA, and i ave no reason to believe that despite the input of vets, it will dissappear.

6) fusion... i fail to see how removal of GSIs from loot pool would help the economy any, please elaborate...
and before you do, read viagras post on borrowing skills-- i think it is VERY realitic, and NOT someting we want.

7) carebear... i also fail to see how easy transference of skills would augment scamming and exploitation... again, please elaborate.
i must agree with the rest of the post, in that in this [semi-]open economy, and as long as people pay rediculous money for some of this stuff, market manipulation WILL happen.

8) hunterz... i also agree with you. were MA not so anal about loots, this sort of ting would be mere teory in its applicability.

if i missed anyone... oh well


/edit holy **** thats a long thread! spaces put between each number to make it readable

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by Cade

6) fusion... i fail to see how removal of GSIs from loot pool would help the economy any, please elaborate...
and before you do, read viagras post on borrowing skills-- i think it is VERY realitic, and NOT someting we want.

It would help the skill market, ... because one of the main reasons that so far I didn't buy any skills at all is that I refuse to pay a ridicoulus ammount for a method of transport for those skills, sometimes quite a bit more than for the actual skills themselves. There are some people who don't seem to care about this, some people seem to.

Removing the need for GSIs alltogether would open up totally free trade on the skill market itself, which I would like to see. And well, for the people that speculate in GSIs and horde them ... well, bad luck if they become use- and worthless ... that's how it works in a neolibertarian market like the one we have on Calypso.

... and borrowing skills ... I think it's a GREAT idea
don't see any problems with it

[Cade]

good reasons

/edit crap cant rep you

[truantduck]

I think it's funny how some people are always so quick to assume that when something is changing, it's because of some evil intent. A lack of curiosity is usually to blame.

You see, GSIs have basically stopped dropping, or are dropping far less than they used to.

If you believe that the number of some or all items in the game is tied to the number of participants, as many do, then you could imagine a situation where one person or a group of persons, over time, could amass a large amount of GSIs, keep them in storage, and create a situation where they dropped only when existing GSIs not in their posession were used up. So, given a certain situation, I guess it is possible that the market could be manipulated.

However, it seems just as likley that something is haywire, or was changed by MA. I don't know.

As far as the idea of putting things in the TT? I hope one day everything is removed from the TT ('sept for the goldcards) With more player created items, including ammo, toxic shots and tools, we will see a more active economy with more opportunities for players to choose and specialize in different professions.

Of course, this will take a more active and responsive balancing philosophy from MA in the initial phases... Also, when things are removed from the TT, they should be removed at the same time those items or similar items become craftable. Boxes anyone?

[burnsey]

Originally Posted by Cade

SEVERAL valid points in here.... i dont have the time to read it through again while writing this, so ill hope i hit on them all...

1) this is almost entirely due to false inflation... over the past couple weeks, GSIs have risen steadily due to less drops, but tis is NOT due to that. this is due to a trader (with whom i am well-acquainted) not only buying out as many GSIs on the market as physically possible, bbut also 'allowing his storage to 'swallow' some of the ones that he might otherwise put on auction... and you wont figure out exactly who by checking auction, because i did this... apparently he used several secondary avaatars, including business acquaintances, to spread it out some what.
we had already talked about this, and he hinted at the 'possibility' of doing someting like this, and the benefits of investing in the procedure.
obviously he found the investors, because i did not offer to help.

the fact that the gsi market is intentionally being inflated makes it more important to tell the community about it so they can make an informed decision on whether or not to purchase them. Under normal market conditions gsi fluctuate in price but since someone is actively trying to influence their prices, I think people should be warned and to hold off on their purchases.

[truantduck]

[quote=Cade]this is almost entirely due to false inflation... over the past couple weeks, GSIs have risen steadily due to less drops, but tis is NOT due to that. this is due to a trader (with whom i am well-acquainted) not only buying out as many GSIs on the market as physically possible, bbut also 'allowing his storage to 'swallow' some of the ones that he might otherwise put on auction... and you wont figure out exactly who by checking auction, because i did this... apparently he used several secondary avaatars, including business acquaintances, to spread it out some what.
we had already talked about this, and he hinted at the 'possibility' of doing someting like this, and the benefits of investing in the procedure.
obviously he found the investors, because i did not offer to help.QUOTE]

Very intresting.

Of course, this person should be locked due to the fact that having multipile avatars is against the rules.

Also, this person, if he/she wishes to sell said GSIs, and make a profit, will undo their lock on the market as they sell GSIs and those GSIs are consumed.

Finally, we can all thwart this kind of market manipulation by simply refusing to pay these inflated prices.

Cade, care to PM the name of the cheate...i mean trader?

[Cade]

Originally Posted by truantduck

Finally, we can all thwart this kind of market manipulation by simply refusing to pay these inflated prices.

i came up with a very good system to slower sweat prices, and posted it a little while back...
if people wouldnt participate in something like that, which would save them MORE than something like this... you think youd be able to organize something? if so, let me in on it, and id love to assist.

Originally Posted by truantduck

Cade, care to PM the name of the cheate...i mean trader?

cheater is the right word

*discussion continued in PM*