traders and resellers a bad thing? let me know

[Lady Wolf]

I give up - to many long threads

But here is what I think about this subject.
First of all traders dont contribute to the loot pool but they can spend a lot of time trading and therefor that is worth something.
I think there is both good traders and bad traders. Some people is fair with their prices and others just tries to get more and more money out of people needing the traded stuff.

I need tailoring materials and that sucks big time for me atm. The price on molisk and animal hide is crazy - the same thing has been with orange paint and that is still crazy. I think there is more to it than the traders cuz it seems like the mob drops less of it but then again I've seen people in auction trying to sell animal hide - in this case the refined generic leather - for 500%.

I've also met traders that wants some clothes and they cant understand why the price is what it is. I haven't yet raised my price on clothes but if the price on tailoring materials keeps being that crazy then I have to. For some its ok to sell tailoring materials for a hign price but when it comes to clothes they dont wanna pay the price it cost to make it and I have to tell then, that I dont pay for their clothes.

And more demands cuz of new people joining the 'game' that sould mean that there would be more materials cuz they hunt small mobs that drops it and...well most of them dont start out with buying clothes.

So to sum up: Its both the traders who makes the price go crazy and MA for not dropping more of the items needed.

[Nostrop]

Originally Posted by Shumis

but remember 1 thing without traders u won't get any nececery items in this game/live as i tink.

You are dead wrong dude. There is a best trader, "government" (MA) runs it - called auction. Everyone can use it.
If there was no traders, ok, resellers, average player can save I think 10-20% of PEDs through life in PE. And now calculate how much you spend on buying different items - ores, tools, armor etc. And calculate 15% from it. This is what resellers/traders just plain rip off you.

Ofcourse there are few good ones, Azip , but most of them are just camping auction and rising prices. And that SUKZ BIG TIME!

[Svetlana]

Here is a thread I could not help but contribute to.

The discussion is a good one- and as others have stated already there is an enormous difference between a trader and a reseller

But, let's face the cold hard facts shall we? The one distinguishing aspect of this little experiment that we play is the real life economy (must I really beat this already dead horse? ). Therefore, trading is an inherent aspect of the game. While we can bitch and complain about traders/resellers jacking up the prices, we must acknowledge how that has actually benefited many among us (particularly those here that are considered "uber" and do own "uber gear"). I think it is imperative for none of us to be so hypocritical as to denounce a system that has made some of us rich (btw, I don't include myself in this little posse but I do not have much a problem with it either).

Now- of course we all can't stand those ppl that do "camp at auction" (to use Nostrop's words) and indeed mess around with the economy on a large scale by buying everything and utilizing second, third, even fourth avatars to complete the schemes. I do think there are steps that MA can take via auction (implementing new features, perhaps tracking individual sellers and buyers) that could potentially curb this dilemma, but that is another discussion.

As for most traders- many of them are like the ones that have already voiced their opinions in the thread. Serious traders like Azi are and will be even more of an integral part of the game as it continues to expand... the opportunites imo are nearly limitless. Small time traders have discovered a rather boring way of breaking even or profitting on a very small degree that allows them to continue to play the game and even hunt/mine once in a while. These players take nothing away from any1... indeed, they put more into this game in other ways rather than financial. They do not "bleed" the so-called loot pool. They simply exist, as ppl, on Calypso and thus add an element of real life to this game.

My

[Akadian]

resellers = pvp food.

whats worse is... seening the same people always at oil rig... im sure u can all name a few of those lil children out there.

but i laugh cause i go there maybe once in a while to kill some atrox.

and i see same kids... they spend allllll day to make get 50 ped? haha

talk about wasting ur life for 5 bucks. I pity them they make me feel better about having a job and depositing when i like.

resellers... well i dont blame them cuase its the rich people ingame that make them all have jobs.. after a hunt someone with peds doesnt need to sell so they sell bulk for cheap...

[Nostrop]

And CBB - you ARE a reseller. Today I personally saw you bidding on typonolic and after some time I checked auction and there was - ok, larger quantity - but @ crazy price. Problem with that is - most probably you won`t sell it at such high price and will have to drop it, but for long time pretty big amount of minerals (if count all resellers) are just hanging in air, not crafted - not back in system - not mined.... And this affect economy pretty bad.

[fresco]

Originally Posted by HunterZ

totaly agree with Jove and Nostrop.

traders in general isnt bad, but i dont saw a lot of traders in PE... most of them are resellers, ok i dont have any problem with pplz who buying minerals, materials 5% under market value and then sell them away in big pack and take these 5-10%. its nice work. but other 95% are pplz who camping auction, scaming pplz who know less about game and doing multiple avatar auction speculations. and when some hunter/miner/crafter want to buy something for his own usage he are forced to fight with multiple resselers which ones actualy dont want this item and never gonna use it.
it sukz. why?

let me explain - because money earned by ressellers are out from ANY pool - if these resellers are +/- succesfull they slower or faster acumulating peds, its mean - taking PEDS away from looting pools, which one mean - less money in them, less money mean - crapy loots, crapy loot - more depositing for most pplz. for MA - they doing withdraws... and if MA earns from decay - ressellers are bad for them too no decay. scamed pplz - lost clients for MA.
its a reason why i think MA must control this multiple avatar manipulations and speculations in auction and penaltize/invetigate any scam atempts, and IP tracking/MAC adress must be included in this... i bet many resellers/scamers use multiple avatars, but i am pretty sure they use them from same computers and i am prety sure - most of them are fake avatars, not theyr friends etc. and its not so hard from MA to track them down and then request document if any suspicion.

and i always said: BANED and PENALTIZED pplz must be publicated in PE web - they broke EULA - its means no more privacy for them, if MA gonna do this in this way it will deter many pplz to do things like these.

there is a point here - granted they do withdrawals.
on the other hand I am totaly with CBB on the resellers/traders and manupulators issue.

Summising:

Traders are natural part of PE, get real plz, that is part of what makes PE appealing - RL elements and sence. And speaking of sence - should we shoot all shopkeepers in RL - they resell bastards. Remember Lenin & Stalin they did that...

Market Manipulators are a different kettle of fish - give them "real" commodities markets and they wont be so bad, that is what MA will do sooner or later. Hades Market - closed atm...

That brings us to the third kind CHEATERS or what in RL will be called criminals - multiple avatar users. Those should be banned on the spot and, totally agree HunterZ, names should be listed oficcially otherwize it will not be a lesson/examples to others.

[HunterZ]

yeah - @ my opinion MA sometimes need to do some investigation for theyr own info. and i think thye gonna found some veeery interesting results - how much items, minerals, materials just hanging on players which ones never hunted/mined.... things which ones are away from system... frozen actives. ok - noone cant forbiden u to go and buy things and put them in storage, but atm situation becoming comic sometimes... and definetly not good for active players. i think some auction fee - like 5 peds + 10 peds slling deposit (if item was sold - it returns to seller) would help a lot. also auction bought tag would help a lot (i item was sold in auction it got a falg which one dont allow put it again in auction for lets say - 1 month) it dont determinate all speculation - but reduce them a lot and keep economy much healthy.

and then these "traders" can show them in real action in towns with things buying/ selling, fighting with each other not in auction camping (put in auction pay 1 ped and forget) - wanna PEDs - go work !!!!

[Crys]

the issue with traders and resellers (hardly any difference between these) has nothing to do with uber equipment, or uber players.

one of the biggest reasons why ppl become traders or resellers is that they can not afford to play this game. most of them dont deposit 10$, but even the ones that do, run out of ped soon enough and then has nothing, so they find some way to resell.

if you cant afford to play this game, dont take advantage of other ppl just to pay your own way. players that cant do anything consistently besides trading/reselling should log off and never come back again, ever.

and if you dont agree, and youre 17 yrs old and youre just trying to make enough money to play this game, this is one reason why i think the ppl that deposit can rightfully complain about resellers.. i just checked in the CL deposit history, and since aug24 2005, ive depo'd enough money to buy angel armor F with peds to spare, so i could hunt =D

we pay the bills, to whatever degree. we help keep the lights on. since 99% of traders dont deposit, all they do is cost MA more money, in the form of server proc time, and bandwidth.

but im not greedy, ive given away more stuff than any of you loot in a month. my first disciple got everything but a blowjob. however, someone that cant afford to support themselves should not dig around for other ways to get money, which just makes hte game worse for everyone else. just cuz i spend money on pe does not make me special. in fact, i get lots of globals but hardly any hofs, MA sure as hell hasnt blessed me at any point. but i pay for my entertainment. nothing wrong with that. why cant everyone do it? and if they cant, then why are they here? if there were no resellers, think of all the extra skilling, since prices on materials would be lower. if there were no loser kids standing around selling ME for 490% (still..), maybe some ppl would have higher MF skills, and be able to revive someone with a res chip more than 1 out of 30 clicks. and itd actually be almost practical to use res chips while hunting. ppl could go out in large groups with mid level skills and just own the AOA and such, all afternoon, maybe score an ATH.

traders/resellers should just log out and stay out.

[The Mighty]

Firstly... I am not a trader.... I buy stuff occasionally after a deposit, and then sell a bit later when I need peds.

99% of the time I make a loss, but occasionally I manage to make a small profit 10-20%.

Just had to get that out the way, so you know where I'm coming from.

I do NOT like market manipulation, but its the buyers that create value by purchasing items at high prices. If something is priced too high, then don't buy it!.... although, chances are if you're desperate for something you may pay a bit more - eg... I had almost full knight set, and needed a harness... and ended up paying way too much for it (like TT+45 or so)... just because I wanted it so badly...

The new players who don't know what things sell for, I feel sorry for, but I do advertise the 2 forums (ep only because of their ended auctions section) to all the new people I come across... I guess its a case of buyer beware.....

[CBB]

yeah i do buy typo around 105- 110, price used to be around 150 - 175, nd it may ever return there.
in order not to be temped to sell i put 300 tt (which is max for typo in 1 pack )value away for 7 days at buy out, as u noticed nobody will buy. i even have 2 or 3 of them i believe, and aftehr next week u ll find a huge amoutn angelic also on with same rinciple, insane openign and buy out, 7 days

sort of safekeeping for me.

but to throw even more oil on the fire:
i did same with lytarian, i had 1400 tt ped lytarian in 1 auction sale, buy out and openign at 1900 ped. to keep it away from myself, week after week till prices rose. And what u know?? someone did a buy out, at 135 %..
i cant for my life imagien why cause u can get the stuff at 105 - 110 % but it did get sold, not because its rare or scarse.
So u exspect me to do nothign, or build up again?

the market on typo and stuff is so big it cant be manipulated. And at a current price of 105 - 110 u cant suggest that the price is being kept at a too high rate

i think this is a intrestign discussion and nice thread with all peopel really thinking, thnx guys, wether we agree or not,