traders and resellers a bad thing? let me know

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by nicoledantrag

I guess I don’t mind the ones that get skins or hides and sweat and charges like an modest markup of maybe 5% to 10% as long as they don’t try to corner the market by buying up everything and forcing you to have to buy from them.

Originally Posted by zzzztj

Couple more points. In RL resellers exist because they - in business parlence "add value". This may be a superior customer support, or some added features, In medical publishing there are companies that produce abstracts and journal databases. These allow researchers to quickly have access to multiple resources in a single search. The advantage is obvious when you consider the scenerio of not having that facility. (it's time for those that didn't get it :p)

There were a lot of posts going into this direction. I don't think these kind of people are a problem at all - those, that for example spend a lot of their time to buy small quantities of stuff for 110% or so in the streets and sell them in huge bulks for 120% or so on the auction. They actually do provide a service of convenience and I also agree that those people add value in some way.

Plus you can always choose to spend a few days of time to buy the small quantities for the street price yourself or just use the auction to buy one big bulk of stuff in a minute or two.

Originally Posted by Sharyn

I do not mind ppl trying to make a living ingame by trading "in the streets"
The only thing that bugs me, and it REALLY does, is seeing certain ppl all over the auction, buying stuff and then re-auctioning it for enormous profit oportuinity....this is really sick....

Yes, exactly. It's actually the "auction camping relisters" that are the real problem. Outbidding people who really want an item for themselves, just to relist it immediately afterwards, that just plain sucks and they should be shot on the spot.

Besides them the professional "market manipulators" who deposit loads of cash to take over control of a certain item or certain goods are an issue as well, mainly because there are no institutions or anything that a RL economy has to keep them in check by any means.

Of course there are also people buying stuff to use it, selling it again after they get tired of it, get some better gear, some other stuff that gives better skills and so on - that's a different story. In that sense everyone is more or less a reseller, me included. But in my book it's something different if you buy something for yourself, use it and then sell it again when you no longer want or need it; and it's natural that people are trying to get back the tt+ they payed for the item themselves.

Originally Posted by Jove

I see what Nostrop is saying and I agree. If loads of traders buy low and all put high then it creates a trend. Miners come in with a load of items and see all the auction listings at this higher price so they list at that price also. This trend has now upped the price. Not everyone looks at some website to check item prices from past auctions. I look at auction and guess the average price on nexus. But resellers put at prices that make people spend more. And I will always make them spend money on decay and ammo when I see them.
[...]
I also hate the resellers who run around to Auktumas shops and buy all his rascal parts and then sell for loads more in auc and cities, pffff.

This is another interesting point. They also do that with beast amps for example. I was following it because I bought one a few weeks ago and I waited as long until I got one for tt+80. Auktuma's price was tt+100 at that time and some resellers were buying them for around tt+90-110 and also from his shop just to relist them for around tt+120 (or more, especially buyout) and they sold for that since they were the only ones available. The effect was that Auktuma himself upped the price of the ones he puts into the auction to around tt+110/120 or so, which I can really understand in some way.

There was an artifical change in the supply/demand created which had and has an obvious effect on the price of a certain item. I think you are totally right Jove, these are activities that drive up market prices artifically without any change in supply/demand and no value added at all. Fraud, to say it in one word.



P.S: HunterZ ... you listed Outback Land 18 for 100k in the auction, at least it was a day or two ago I don't think you actually wanted to sell it but perhaps you wouldn't have minded if someone had actually bought it ... talking about reselling/relisting with quite a markup

[Wren]

Excellent Discusion here. I wish I could add more, but everything appears to have been touched all.

All I can say is 'Furniture Market Manipulater' pwnt by the VU.

[HunterZ]

Originally Posted by Fusion

P.S: HunterZ ... you listed Outback Land 18 for 100k in the auction, at least it was a day or two ago I don't think you actually wanted to sell it but perhaps you wouldn't have minded if someone had actually bought it ... talking about reselling/relisting with quite a markup

i advertising my new contest.

[cesarsousa]

Some posts here r confusing resselers with scamers. In RL there's a market called gross sales market and many companies are living of this. Perhaps some of ur parents r working in these companies.

Resseling it's legal and positive for the PE economy. It's bad that the resseling market don't have the best conditions.

What is positive about resseling:

- Saves time to crafters (time is money)

A crafter needs a lot of ore and materials to craft and if they buy directly to miners or hunters they have to buy to many of them. It's faster to buy to only one resseler

- resseling balance prices

that one it's more polemic and many don't agree. Bad for u! a resseler disciplinate the market by buying at fixed prices. Some miners/hunters (not all of course) try to get the most profits of their work and sometimes ask for exagerated prices. A resseler calm down these attitudes for not buying merchandise for these especulators. So, low demand = prices down

- resselling injects money in PE economy

Money it's essencial in any economy. PE economy also needs money. the resseling activity works with large quantities of money so the resselers deposit many money

In my opinion resseling don't have good conditions and instruments. The actual auction system it's not adequate for resseling and it's inflationary. The auction it's the only instrument we have to know the prices (Mytwopecs.com uses it) and as some already said in posts before, many guys only bid for overpricing. The auction it's only adequate for uber items or real estate not for stockable items.

In my opinion MA should create an auction for gross sales similar in RL (Like oil, iron, gold).

[CBB]

well its fun to see the new auction in the release providing more info about the product on sale.
The excat % for the openign bid, and even the listed % buy out makes it easier for peopel to recognize.
As a trader and reseller i immediatly admit that it works both ways, its easier to bid now for me on enmatter items with low prices and small quantities, cause its done quicker this way and doesnt require my brain to do math. But i do think information is a always a step in the right direction

before i started this post i didnt realize how big the pe econmy was, en my 3 k peds total worth doesnt even make me a trader hehe. I had no idea on how much money, minerals and items some people sit. A indefinate ammount of cash certainly makes a nice profit. So thnx for that, it really opened my eyes. I even tested a few things to take advantage from that and made some big buyers buy my stuff cause my price was below theirs for 7 days, blockign the sell of their almost monopely goods (which was big fun)

As a soc mate of mine said; money makes money

this is the first game i played here people actually discuss items seroiusly, which makes me love pe even more

seing the auction changes i think slowly things will move to prevent the really big abuse. growing of the game is a vital part of that, there comes a point where there are so much items (even the limited onces) that its virtually impossbile to control them all.

i still think traders and resellers provide a service up to a certain point but its the possibilities to control market that will have to go away

thnx for the input and discussion

[fresco]

Originally Posted by CBB

i still think traders and resellers provide a service up to a certain point but its the possibilities to control market that will have to go away

unfortunately this is not going to happen - rothchilds controlled the rl world market for centuries...

[Nostrop]

Originally Posted by cesarsousa

Some posts here r confusing resselers with scamers. In RL there's a market called gross sales market and many companies are living of this. Perhaps some of ur parents r working in these companies.

Resseling it's legal and positive for the PE economy. It's bad that the resseling market don't have the best conditions.

What is positive about resseling:

- Saves time to crafters (time is money)

A crafter needs a lot of ore and materials to craft and if they buy directly to miners or hunters they have to buy to many of them. It's faster to buy to only one resseler

- resseling balance prices

that one it's more polemic and many don't agree. Bad for u! a resseler disciplinate the market by buying at fixed prices. Some miners/hunters (not all of course) try to get the most profits of their work and sometimes ask for exagerated prices. A resseler calm down these attitudes for not buying merchandise for these especulators. So, low demand = prices down

- resselling injects money in PE economy

Money it's essencial in any economy. PE economy also needs money. the resseling activity works with large quantities of money so the resselers deposit many money

In my opinion resseling don't have good conditions and instruments. The actual auction system it's not adequate for resseling and it's inflationary. The auction it's the only instrument we have to know the prices (Mytwopecs.com uses it) and as some already said in posts before, many guys only bid for overpricing. The auction it's only adequate for uber items or real estate not for stockable items.

In my opinion MA should create an auction for gross sales similar in RL (Like oil, iron, gold).

Dude, what are you talking about? Reselers don`t disciplinate market, they manipuate it. We have best reseeler option - auction. If price fits you - buy, If don`t then find another one. If there were no resellers prices would be way more stable. Miners and hunters need turnover, so if they see none buy @ set price they will lower it. Also there will be naturally set level at which good will be sold.
Now what reselers do. They buy shitload of, for instance, one kind of rare ore, set huge price and just sit and wait. They won`t lower price, because at some point there will be desperate crafter who will want to test new bp or something. This only means that there will be no more ore of that kind untill it`s not crafted. Very easy can be done with rare ores. And what is happening right now.
And you calling it good and necessary thing for PE?!

[Elmar]

Here in forum was similar thread about " Must MA regulate market?"
My opinion what resellers are good for PE economy. Resellers keep auction prices in balance. This " trade action" thing when reseller buys similar goods to rise price is temporary and doing this he take very big risk. /some other can have big amount same goods and sell it with lower price floating market and no-one buys this risk taker goods because market is full. If not another big trader, then normal people can sell their stuff with little higher price. Or second risk MA can see what reseller try to do and just add some stuff to lootpool and reseller "burns"./ The other way reseller/collector defending crafters in this market jump, when some other try manipulate market. He collecting piece by piece stuff and bring it with little comission right to crafter hand and both are happy.
If not resellers who collect stuff, then players tt their small amounts or try sell them little amounts with high price because they must pay auction fee and want get profit too. Crafters lose both way.
Resellers are like pumps, what make stuff and money to flow with normal speed.