Some utterly insane tests

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by Arkonen

I waited sooo long before being able to do that .....
"I'm sorry Jimmy but your data set is too small, you can not take any conlusions based on such a small run"

Hehe and yes you're right. We can't draw many hard conclusions. However, we can draw some possible insights and then make a more informed decision on the next way to test. We can for instance pretty conclusively deduce that spending 14 times more than normal killing a mob, does not result in each mob giving you 14 times the loot. Other than that we can only make conjectures and subject them to further testing.

Nothing wrong with making conjectures based on limited data sets. You just have to be aware they're just conjectures and not treat them as hard facts.

[falkao]

Originally Posted by Arkonen

I waited sooo long before being able to do that .....
"I'm sorry Jimmy but your data set is too small, you can not take any conlusions based on such a small run"

It depends on the conclusion one would take. For sure you can't reveal any hidden parameters, but as Jimmy already mentioned, it is proven now that loot depends on total dmg done, and since dmg costs its total cost to kill it.

The difference in loot is statistically significant, so the sample size is sufficient to conclude this.

[Aske]

We had this talk last night with Oleg on soc chat on whether amount of dmg done/ammo spent influences loot.

I usually go on 200ped ammo hunts on ambus - been doing it for a few weeks now. There are long periods when I get just around 1 ped loot from each ambu - sometimes even during the whole hunt. Then next hunt with exactly same equipment, same location (nea's) I end up getting 3+ ped loot per ambu.

So based on that I am a bit sceptical about the whole experiment.

[Jimmy B]

OK was going to go a redo the test with the H350 but not pausing to allow the ambu to regenerate. Couldn't find a H350 on auction nor anything that would give me about the same damage per sec. So I used a slower Ruker UL1 instead.

Equipment: Gremlin+5B, fap-2600, fap-5 between mobs, Riker UL1+102 without the scopes & sights, couple of swings of Valor when gun broke very near the end of mob 6. Mobs were killed with as little interruption as possible, a couple of faps were necessary per mob.

Total Ammo: 93.35
Total Armor: 5.52
Total Weps: 42.00
Total Fap: 1.99

Total Spend: 142.86
Average Spend: 23.81

Loots: 6.4, 2.43, 5.61, 2.62, 12.53, 9.4
Total Loot: 38.99

Loots were:

38 Soft hide, 6 residue, 234 ammo
6 Adrenal, 1 residue, 122 ammo
1 kidney, 1 pancreas, 293 ammo, 18 residue
1 kidney, 3 adrenal, 2 residue
14 pancreas, 141 leather ext, 19 residue, 393 ammo
3 kidney, 267 ammo, 3 adrenal, 13 residue

Conclusion

Again this is I think pretty clearly inherently different from 'normal' ambu loot. I'm not convinced there's a huge amount of evidence of any difference from the insane test though.

[Kitten]

Hmm thats very interesting and thank you for doing such expensive testing for the community.

I have always noticed my loots are different if I hunt with my ewe ep 41 or a manis on ambu's and pretty much everything else.

Also I notice a change in my loot now that I use a fire forge instead of a bravo for tagging.

[Xen]

I was hoping someone else would do this testing so I wouldn't have to myself.

It's starting to look pretty conclusive to me, don't hunt mobs that you can't kill quickly with your weapon/armor. If they change all mobs like they have ambu, allo and spiders, suddenly a lot of mobs are going to become inefficient to hunt solo for a lot of mid level hunters. This will also marginalize the advantage of adj/imp/mod faps, as just 2 faps and the mob regenerates.

edit: need to spread rep blah

[Harvest]

I guess the ambu test was a good choice as they loot better than other mobs but would an Exo test be more cost effictive?....guess then it wouldnt be that insane. Kill 50 with opolo then kill 50 with valor. Good test though, keep up the insanity.

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by Xen

It's starting to look pretty conclusive to me, don't hunt mobs that you can't kill quickly with your weapon/armor.

I'm not convinced this is proven yet to be honest. I got quite a few 60pec loots whilst hunting Ambu with HL14 in Ambumania. If we assume that's about as low as it goes, currently the lowest loots in the insane and crazy tests are around 240pec. For the crazy test above, that could conceivably correspond to tt loot being multiplied by about 4 which isn't so far off the extra it costs to kill.

What I think may be indicated is:

(i) It looks like loot is modified up somehow based on cost to kill or damage done. Its not clear exactly how this modification works though.
(ii) Letting the mob regenerate beyond what it would naturally regenerate whilst shooting with the chosen weapon doesn't seem to affect the loot. (which is different to the conclusion Witte drew from a similar test a long time ago)

(ii) needs to be tested a bit further to be sure, by shooting with something sensible and letting the mob regenerate fully twice.

Originally Posted by Harvest

I guess the ambu test was a good choice as they loot better than other mobs but would an Exo test be more cost effictive?....guess then it wouldnt be that insane. Kill 50 with opolo then kill 50 with valor. Good test though, keep up the insanity.

Ambu were chosen because of their regeneration properties which makes it much easier to spend significantly more than normal on them.

The problem with the valor/opalo test on Exaros, is that the difference in cost to kill isn't particularly big. That makes it very hard to tell whether differences in loot observed are just noise or not.

Originally Posted by Aske

We had this talk last night with Oleg on soc chat on whether amount of dmg done/ammo spent influences loot.

I usually go on 200ped ammo hunts on ambus - been doing it for a few weeks now. There are long periods when I get just around 1 ped loot from each ambu - sometimes even during the whole hunt. Then next hunt with exactly same equipment, same location (nea's) I end up getting 3+ ped loot per ambu.

So based on that I am a bit sceptical about the whole experiment.

Its a short run yes. I'm aware of the dangers of leaping to conclusions with insufficient data to back it up.

However, we can draw some conclusions, and also each test points at other things to test that will broaden our knowledge.

We have certainly learnt with little room left for uncertainty that pumping 14 times as much ped into an ambu than normal does not give you 14 times as much loot on each individual mob. For that to be true it would have to be possible to loot 17pec from an ambu when killing them normally. I've never seen that since the new ambus arrived.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

I'm not convinced this is proven yet to be honest. I got quite a few 60pec loots whilst hunting Ambu with HL14 in Ambumania. If we assume that's about as low as it goes, currently the lowest loots in the insane and crazy tests are around 240pec. For the crazy test above, that could conceivably correspond to tt loot being multiplied by about 4 which isn't so far off the extra it costs to kill.

What I think may be indicated is:

(i) It looks like loot is modified up somehow based on cost to kill or damage done. Its not clear exactly how this modification works though.
(ii) Letting the mob regenerate beyond what it would naturally regenerate whilst shooting with the chosen weapon doesn't seem to affect the loot. (which is different to the conclusion Witte drew from a similar test a long time ago)

(ii) needs to be tested a bit further to be sure, by shooting with something sensible and letting the mob regenerate fully twice.

If i and ii are true, wouldn't that mean that there must be a complicated, arbitrary way to determine loot? MA would have to differentiate between regeneration while "actively shooting" and regeneration while just standing there. How would they do that?

Or, perhaps there is a hard limit for how much regeneration will be compensated?

Perhaps a better test would be to kill as fast as possible with an h400, and then another weapon with around 2x the dam/sec?

[Dorsai]

Armour decay having an effect got me thinking, and remembering.

I have no facts or figures to back this up.

I suspect it does play a part, and perhaps a large part. Mobs I used to need armour for, as I stood no chance without it, and can now kill without armour seem to loot far worse than they used to.

Putting armour on (pixie etc) still does not improve the loot, as I can now use the opalo I used to use at 10/10, and evade the attacks, so take no decay on the pixie.
I used to love Snabs, 2 years ago, now they are a waste of time.
Armour decay would explain it all.

Now, I take no armour decay, as they cant hit me.