Question: Attachments on maxed weapons

[Executor]

If we assume that an attachment increases the aiming skill, this increase is variable since it depends on the current level we have.

For example, you are level 30 in Laser Sniper (Hit), you add a Laser which gives you +22%, we can guess that you become level 36.6, so the increase is +6.6 here. It imprves your eco since your MinDmg and your HA are higher.
(I don't speak about people with Level 100 )

If you use non SIB weapon, it is fine, but we have to consider the decay, which is NOT variable, I mean you will have to pay the extra milli-pecs whatever your level is.

And according to some old calculations I made for me, decay was higher than the skill gains for most of the Scopes and for some Lasers, which are better eco.

If someone is willing to make such calculations, it would be great to know, for each Laser / Scope (according to their SkillMod + Decay), at what Hit Level they become eco...


Regards,
Xor

[Doer]

What we do know:

• Attachments do something
• Marco says they do it on maxed weapons
• Some sight descriptions say that they "Increase the shooters chance of hitting a target" Linky
• Once SIB weapons are "maxed", that's the end of HA, damage and range improvement
• Once conventional weapons are "maxed" (e.g. level 100), their range still increases

What we probably know:

• Attachments improve effective hit rate on mobs and avatars by creating an effective HA that is HA*(100% + mod %) for unmaxed weapons
• Attachment condition (i.e. degree of disrepair) doesn't affect its behavior
• Attachments don't improve hit rate on maxed SIB weapons
• Once conventional weapons are "maxed", their hit rate and damage stop progressing

What we don't know:

• Attachments don't improve hit rate on maxed conventional weapons
• Attachments affect CHA the same way and in the same cases that they affect HA
• Attachments improve skill gains
• Attachments improve loot
• Attachments don't improve range

I've tried to test if attachments affect range by using the autoaim feature combined with "move to object when interacting with it", but unfortunately that feature doesn't just move to the maximum range possible. It is still possible to test this by finding the edge of range of a target with attachments on, and then taking them off. I haven't done that yet because it is best done with the longest range weapons available, and i don't have a Marber and didn't at the time i conceived of the test feel like wasting a few PEDs ammo to do so. If we found that attachments have the same effect on range that they do on effective HA, we could more easily test a couple other hypothesis.

The other hypotheses are close enough to impossible to test that i have no inclination to try, especially since i think attachments work only by increasing effective HA (the most obvious and logical effect) and possibly skill gains (minutely).

The only thing that makes me vaguely uncomfortable in that stand is Marco's response to the question either Jimmy B or i asked (can't remember who now lol) about it. He seems to think attachments do things on maxed weapons, but i think he just didn't know and was giving the RCE-friendly response.

[Jimmy B]

Cheers Doer, nice summary

Originally Posted by Doer

The only thing that makes me vaguely uncomfortable in that stand is Marco's response to the question either Jimmy B or i asked (can't remember who now lol) about it. He seems to think attachments do things on maxed weapons, but i think he just didn't know and was giving the RCE-friendly response.

Yeah its certainly possible we could be mislead by Marco's response there. He said himself that he really didn't know.

[RexDameon]

If you max out an item to 10 on Hits don't you still miss sometimes? I could be wrong havn't used a max out item in a while. So to me adding attachments would still help. Just like having more skill still helps cause i thought thats what they esentially do is add more skill to you.

[BruuD]

Nice post Doer.
But i still dont know what to do with my freshly purchased Hunnirs and Jzar, put them on my T10 (L) or leave them on storage taking dust
If they do give more skill (what is plausible cause you spend more on decay) i'd put them right on.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by RexDameon

If you max out an item to 10 on Hits don't you still miss sometimes? I could be wrong havn't used a max out item in a while. So to me adding attachments would still help. Just like having more skill still helps cause i thought thats what they esentially do is add more skill to you.

Neither of those helps you miss less with a maxed SIB weapon.

BruuD, you're not an eco-obsessive kind of guy. Just put the attachments on and if you decide they're costing too much, take them off.

[BruuD]

Originally Posted by Doer

BruuD, you're not an eco-obsessive kind of guy. Just put the attachments on and if you decide they're costing too much, take them off.

You know me too well, Doer

[Naifas Anaconda]

Originally Posted by binfordw

I feel attachments DO still help, regardless of maxed or not.

No hard proof from me of course, just my opinion.


Why I feel this is true, is mostly from what I've seen hunting with the wife.



Same guns, both maxed, same amps, same everything, except skills.

Damage output is consistantly higher with the higher skilled ava, so that tells me there is more to it than "maxed" on weapons.

Perhaps her RL skills in handling the mouse + keyboard are higher?

[Sirhc]

No matter what weapon they each have an effective range of minimum and maximum damage even when maxed. Could scopes and lasers add modification to so that the shooter will hit better meaning more successively higher damage hits(within the range) and critical hits?

It would seem logical that if you are going to put something on a weapon to help you aim and hit you would induce more damage by hitting more critical areas on the mob.

This is just an example but similar to something I notice frequently.

Unscoped at range I notice doing damages sort of like this
100.0
108.0
89.0
106.0

Scoped it seems like they do this
115.0
113.0
95.0
120.0

Scoping is weird though it seems you have to keep the mob at a certain frame within the viewing field for it to work. That usually means backing out your zoom as the mob closes in on you. I don't use auto-aim or hunt in 3rd person. I also don't think damage is just a random equation but that is just my opinion and I use what works for me.

There just have to be some things in EU that have similarities to real world items. Why do you scope a RL hunting rifle? So you can hit your target better at range and inflict what you hope is a kill shot. Its possible for a shooter to do it unscoped but you have to be much more skilled. Lasers perform the same function at a closer range. They are a visual cue were you are going to hit. So without them you could very well point a pistol at a target and just wing it but with lasers you know exactly where you are going to hit and what kind of damage you can inflict by hitting that area.

I would love to get a straight answer from MA about this one way or the other. Maybe Dion's interview will shed some light on the subject or it could just open up a whole other basket of questions.

Take what I say with a grain of salt though because I don't number or stat crunch which Doer has pointed out on many occasion . I just observe and react and go with what works. If scopes and lasers did not work for me I would not use them and its as simple as that.

[JohnCapital]

Scopes and sights do nothing good at all. Ever. They are a complete waste. A trick by MA to increase decay without giving anything back.













(Buying all Jzar Scope, Hunnir/Ignaritz/Jakth Sights +5 @ Boxes)