Question: what's your return rate?

[ruskea]

im around that 20-50% on both mining and hunting

[the-unknown]

My returns are all over the place sometimes.

I usually spend about 300 peds per hunt (include decay / markup lost / ammo) and have gotten anything from about 100 peds to about 500 peds returns (without any hofs).

A single global usually helps to make the hunt break even, sometimes even that is not enough. Rarely is a run profitable without a global.

Some days are good, some days I lose over 300 peds over a couple of runs in a single day.

Overall I think I can get close to breakeven (or small profit) - except I tend to go after "fun huge mobs" at times and lose it all after that.

Must remember to have less fun :P

[GullyFoyle]

Originally Posted by valygar

im at around 250% average. Sometimes its bad and i only get 150%, sometimes up to 400%.

I think the options in the poll are a bit low. for people like me who profit a lot its a bit boring.

Damn forum trolls.....

[Leona]

Originally Posted by Snuggins

I do have one disagreement/question though about the 100% return rate. I find that return is more like ~90-92% but over all costs, not just from gun, amp, and ammo.

I wonder if your fap and armor bills are approximately 8% of what you spend on the costs that you report a 100% return from?

I burn a fair bit of scanner, more armor than gun sometimes and often a lot of fap. I still find that my returns are about 92% of total cost even though my cost of ammo and guns is probably only 50% of my total costs. I am in a down period right now, so it's hard to say this with confidence (and impossible to back it up with data), but my last loot peak put me right in line with 92% of my total spending to that point, so I keep my faith.

(all references to costs and loots refer to tt value only -- I totally agree that burning low mark-up to loot high mark-up is the way to profit)

Yes, the "close to 100% tt-return thingy" is where most people disagree. Actually just had an discussion in socchat .

It is easy to explain though. Let's agree on some terms first:

Active costs: Everything that decays direct to damage. Ammo, weapon decay and amp decay for an ranged hunter in example.

Passive Costs: Fap, Armor "basedecay" (w/o L markup)

Lack of Economy Costs: If you use an unmaxed weapon

Markup Costs: All markup you "decay" on your run, your L gun, L amp, L Fap, L Armor, L whatever

Extra Expenses: Teleport costs, LA-taxes...

So what i claim is: Assuming you hunt with an maxed weapon, on the long run you get back 100% of your Active Costs plus an unknown part of your Passive Costs.
To me it seems that the system keeps an % of the Passive Costs. That would be pretty much how MA claims that it works, surprise surprise.

The Markup Costs, MA's part of the Passive Costs and the Extra Expenses however, it is your job as hunter to earn it back by markup in loot.

Or you just write it off because you are an funhunter and deposit. Still you can hope for an big loot with huge markup. Whatever people claim about lack of items in loot, there was never so much markup in loot in the past then it is nowadays.

You can go and optimize your runs for the sum of small markup amounts that accumulates pretty nice, or you just hope for "luck" to loot something with big markup. Depends all on your bankroll and how you want to enjoy the "game".

So back on topic an bit: Why do we have so huge gaps in reported returns here on the forum?

Well, first you can filter out the "extreme" values. Reason for those are plenty and it would need an extra long post to go into it.

From all my experience, if someone, who claims to get i.e. 50% back, starts to keep track of his results, split by Active Costs, Passive Costs and other costs (see above) over an reasonable timeframe, and compares it to TT-returns, he suddenly reports >90% returns on TT.

But even your example of 92% is way of my results, so whats the reason?

People underestimate how small things sums up!

I wanted to post some examples out of my present daily hunting routine, they are quite extreme so one could see the huge differences. Range would be grinding small allos with H400+A105 to hunting Sumimas with Delta+Beast.
To much work atm, so maybe next days if this thread is still active. The sense of the examples would be to show how extreme things sums up and that it is not the TT-return that makes some people deposit and others breake even over years.

So that was an lot of blabla again from my side, if my theories (and i have an truckload more, loot cycles is one of my favorite ) are right or not doesn't really matter, it works for me since 2,5 years, that matters.

What obviously is true, and that matters an lot, is that one can break even after markup with hunting and mining without luck at any level. Yes, skills and gear helps an lot, but then again it is not everything.

MA added an lot of "fog" over the last years, nolooters, remove of peds in loot, extreme loot distribution / Hofs... Doesn't matter at all, basics are still the same. You need to have an bigger bankroll nowadays to break even, thats true though.

[Dorsai]

I got a "dynamic reply" from MA.

Logged back in where I was when I gave up last night.
Got attacked by a few bots close to me, and did not want to die. Not like it matters, but I wanted to tp out.

Shot 2-4 of them, then got this.




Puts me back to about 70%.

[Harmony.]

Originally Posted by Leona

Yes, the "close to 100% tt-return thingy" is where most people disagree. Actually just had an discussion in socchat .

Lol i was just saying that 94% ísn't close enough to 100%

[Leona]

Originally Posted by Harmony.

Lol i was just saying that 94% ísn't close enough to 100%

Lol Harmony, yes i agree. And like sayd, i do not insist on the 100% thingy. Just saying it is damn close to it. But agreed, even few % sums up huge over time, so it is an difference.

[Hellfire]

Originally Posted by Staffas

oh, I placed myself in the wrong bracet. I placed myself in the 70%.
But if I only include ammo vs loot TT value like Dorsai, then I am in the 90%+

I have always counted with decay included, so sorry for not providing the correct info for the poll.

You really have to include both though, as different weapons have a different ratio of decay to ammo, and if you are using a melee weapon you don't use any ammo at all

[Daikiba Old]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

By return I meant: "Avi used up 100 peds of ammo, and got x peds-tt in loot." I am not even including decay.

I get, on average, at the moment, 10-20 peds back at TT per 100 peds ammo Solo hunting. Like I said "Clearly I am doing something wrong."

Yes, i would say so.
But guys, for the poll your vote is really irrelevant if you calculate return rate without taking decay into account. Some have high ammo use vs low decay and others vice versa. For example my overall decay is around 65-75% of my ammo use, hunting with (L) weapons.
But if you really insist on doing that, I suggest you to use melee weapons, then you will (think you) have guaranteed profit on every hunt.

edit: and I obviously didnt read the last post before posting

[Acronoid]

Ammo only 100%+
ammo + amp 100%+
ammo + gun decay ~100% (has been low laterly due to some fun hunts, but it's 100+ again atm *crossing fingers*)