My 2 PECs About Looting System

[Essi]

Used terms

Average loot - Average loot is all loots counted together and then divided with number of loots. “Nothing to loot” is treated as zero value loot.

Average loot contents - Average as above but counted only when there is something to loot.

Loot variance - Variance tells how much loots tend to differ from average loot. This is counted by taking average of squared differences to average loot.

So what they tell us?

Average loot is what you get back in extremely long run. Average loot contents is what you see in loot window. These are pretty simply and clear. More interesting one is loot variance. Loot variance tells how much loots differ from average loots thus the “randomity” of loots.

Loot variance would mean nothing in hunting if you would get all the loots but since you don’t its impact can be huge. With big loot variance what you get back can vary a lot from average. But more loots you get, less variance matters.

What MA actually did?

MA said two things in their VU info. First they introduced “nothing to loots” thus dropping lowest loot from couple pecs to zero. And then they said that when loot occurs its bigger. Thus they raised average loot content. By doing this they raised loot variance a lot. Since loot variance is calculated using squares moving extreme values even further away from average makes huge difference. We don’t know how they actually changed loot contents but it seems that large 500-999 ped hofs drop more often.

Why did they do it?

We can only speculate. But we can easily see some reasons when looking system where loot variance is really low. If loot variance is zero, every mob drops exactly average loot. Since hunting costs depend quite a lot on equipment and skills it would mean that there would be clear division in skills and equipment what is needed to break even. Thus with low skills you would have no change at all to break even while with high skills you would profit every run.

Basically that kind of system would remind investing. You train yourself certain skills and you are guaranteed to profit. Might sound appealing but remembering that there are high skilled players who are rich already. They would keep getting richer and skill up all the time and make the needed skill level to raise all the time. Also since profit is somewhat proportional to amount of money you put into hunting it would mean that high skilled, uber equipped players would pump out more and more money from ecosystem every day. Its easy to see how it would be bad for MA and very discouraging to new players.

Summary

Bigger variance thus means that more “luck” is involved. Though more loots means bigger chance to get closer to average and variance matters less – more you loot, less luck matters. Variance can be bad if you could break even with average loots (as it can be with high skilled hunters) or good if you have no chance to break even with average loots (like new players). Big variance means that with small amounts of loots you are likely to either lose or win a lot. Since highest loots are even 10000 peds above average loot, it means that there must be huge amount of zero ped loots to even it up. (With simple maths: if average is 2 peds, there must be almost 5k nothing to loots to even up one 10k ped hof).

So if you want to break even regularly you should go after mob you can kill in huge numbers. Big variance means that you are likely to come back with losses from many runs but most likely also get an occasional big hof to even up time to time.

[MindBuster]

Originally Posted by Essi

Why did they do it?

To reduce server load imo, as it is now then everytime a players tries to loot the mob the server only have to calculate the chance of getting loot, a simple yes/no, if no then move on, no server load, if yes, then do the calculations of how much loot.

Before the server had to make big calculations every time players clicked to loot, with the new system with no loot there is much less server load i would guess and thereby less lag.

[Devil Doll]

Good post Essi. I agree on all points. Especially the hunt as many mobs as possible for better chances of breaking even.

DD

[Essi]

Originally Posted by MindBuster

To reduce server load imo, as it is now then everytime a players tries to loot the mob the server only have to calculate the chance of getting loot, a simple yes/no, if no then move on, no server load, if yes, then do the calculations of how much loot.

That was one of the public reasons.

However they could have just merged the lowest loot without changing higher loots at all. Instead of looting 0.1 peds per loot, you might just get those in one 1 ped loot 10 mobs later.

With new loot system the upper range loots changed as well. It can of course be that all higher loots are calculated from some kind of base loot and that it changed from introducing no loots. But still I think its kind of funny "coincidence" that this change happened to make breaking even more unsure.

[Svetlana]

Originally Posted by Devil Doll

Good post Essi. I agree on all points. Especially the hunt as many mobs as possible for better chances of breaking even.

DD

Yes I share this belief. When I hunt appropriate mobs with appropriate skills and weapon... and when I hunt them in large numbers for hours, I always break even if not profit

[nickythenose]

The method that I have some sucess in and have only just devised is to choose methods that reqiore low cost in terms of weponry (solomate opolo with amp) and goodish armour (shogun), then go for the easy monsters with 30 ped of medium cell packs.

Ensure that a "sucessfully finished" hunting trip is when the amp is down to near zero and I am out of ammo.

That means that I have used the ammo to kill as many creatures as possible. When killing the exarousaur, i use the method of wounding it, so that it starts to attack, then only killing it when it is near, so that when it starts to move away from me when it is nearly dead, it has not dragged me into the herd when I am about to loot it. The agressive nature of the Combibio is also useful (although they do hit out more) because they approach to attack and then when they die, you have not been dragged into the herd. This way I can pick off individual creatures.

So far (after only a few trips of this type) I have broken even, with many being zero loot and some being upto 13.9 PED loot or with armour and skins making up the value.

My next big trip will be with 70 ped of ammo and I will report back the result.

On my first day in Calypso, I was greeted by an honest trader that sold me loads of stuff (!) he mentioned that it is possible to get 600 ped on one single hunting trip. He did not say whether this was profit after repairs, ammo and the like.

Has anyone else heard of this roumour and if so can you please tell me the secret, cos 60 USD a day plus my regular earnings would really make life a lot easyer!!!!!!!!

Nicky

[Dutchie]

Originally Posted by nickythenose

On my first day in Calypso, I was greeted by an honest trader that sold me loads of stuff (!) he mentioned that it is possible to get 600 ped on one single hunting trip. He did not say whether this was profit after repairs, ammo and the like.

Has anyone else heard of this roumour and if so can you please tell me the secret, cos 60 USD a day plus my regular earnings would really make life a lot easyer!!!!!!!!

Nicky

Hm.

Honest trader, isn't that what they call a "contradictio in terminis"?

Yes you can bet 600 ped on a single hunting trip if you haven enough ammo etc. However taking all expenses into account in the end you will be at loss.

There is no secret and no way to sustainedly make USD 60/day with hunting.
(think about it another way: where would the money come from. MA is not a charity).

Actually there *might* be a few ways to make USD 60/day with this game:
- buy an LA
- convince Neverdie to sell CND at a reasonable price
- start working for MA (e.g. resolving support cases or fixing bugs).

Not with hunting, not with mining (at least not sustained).