Mob Damage Studies - Circa 2008 - Page 4

Kolobok · 12-22-2007, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

It may feel odd but this is an expected result - although the mob hits you for only 10 impact, you absorb it with both the armor and the plates so you actually protect 17 Impact, the extra is effectively deducted of the other damage types that aren't protected against

Thanks for the explanation. Good to know that there is a way to protect against different damage types with a set of pixie/goblin/gnome+5a.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

We'll have to think up a few more tests to figure out the rest. I can't think of an obvious way to do it (unless you happen to have Thunderbird or Vindicator) but I'll have a think.

Now I think that with Vampire (only stab protection) it is easy. Anyone cares to test or borrow me a set of Vampire for quick test? Taking one-two hits and then measuring decay is enough, the rest is done by math.

Edit: oops not that easy as there will be always protection for 5 stab. But at least with min/max dmg test it is possible.

Jimmy B · 12-22-2007, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolobok

Thanks for the explanation. Good to know that there is a way to protect against different damage types with a set of pixie/goblin/gnome+5a.

Yes, the way it works does sometimes lead to you effectively protecting against a damage type the armor and plates don't actually protect against. On the downside, if there is no 'spare' damage leftover from other damage types, then you pay extra decay for nothing (eg. someone gets hit for 12 Impact wearing Rascal+5B. The Rascal protects against all 12 Impact so you have a 1.0 hit. However the 5B also protects against all 12 Impact. Thus your decay is roughly double what would be if you were not wearing the plates, even though the damage taken is the same).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolobok

Now I think that with Vampire (only stab protection) it is easy. Anyone cares to test or borrow me a set of Vampire for quick test? Taking one-two hits and then measuring decay is enough, the rest is done by math.

I'm not sure it'll work. If Atrax Young does 10 or more Stab then on a min hit it'll do 5 or more Stab. As Vampire only protects 5 Stab, it doesn't help us if the min stab damage is more than 5.

Witte · 12-22-2007, 12:14

I will add the damage type columns for each maturity in a moment on Entropedia. For now, I will not use the data for armor calculations, as that requires some extra coding, and decay isnt working anyway right now.

Some other points about entropedia: It is possible to mark updates that seem false by pressing the "Mark" button. You can either do this by viewing the history of an individual item, or on the Latest Updates page. Locking certain values thats are proven to be correct seem unnececary to me right now. There is very little abuse at the moment, and with the possibility to mark suspicious updates it seems obsolete. When values are 100% confirmed, it is always possible to add a comment about it on the discussion page.

About the feffoid damage being changed on entropedia, I reviewed the history, and it seems it was me who did that. I changed that while being under the asumption that only residu damage is offered to either plates or armor, which later proved to be a false assumption.

Oleg · 12-22-2007, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

Interesting, what's the story with the Attackers?

There was a discussion in the thread I linked (here) about how Attacker Generation 1s seem to be more dangerous than some higher maturities, which led to a suggestion that their damage had been modified for some reason (possibly because it was too easy to stand in front of one and let it shoot you repeatedly for hours).

The testing that Redfrog did suggested that the standard damage split is 75% burn/25% penetration (so typical bot damage), but the Gen 1 does 100% electric.

There's data in that thread which I've checked (and I think Witte did too?) and it's all sound.

JohnCapital · 12-22-2007, 17:32

Well if it is the case that different maturities do different damage (and I think i this i strue in a few cases, not just the Attacker 01s) then that makes the current dmg page on wiki a tad more difficult.

I mean under Attackers, you can list it 25/75 pen/burn, but then the 01 info gets lost in the noise.

And as I said, I'm pretty sure other mobs have maturity issues. For example argo youngs are more difficult then argo scouts. (Not that they're hard mobs, but still...)

Oh well, this is the system that MA created. It's our job to figure it out and work with it.

Jimmy B · 12-22-2007, 17:38

Yeah its a complex one. I guess if Attacker turn out to be an odd case, a note somewhere in their description will suffice.

Jimmy B · 12-22-2007, 22:10

Feffoid Raider, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took 3 hits against a Feffoid Raider:

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Cold  Impact%
-----------------------------------------------
14.3   1.232     16.9     10.9   20.3    34.9
19.7   1.504     19.8     13.8   25.7    34.9
16.0   1.316     17.8     11.8   22.0    34.9

Feffoid Raider does 14, 26 assuming a total of 40 damage as per wiki. (43 total damage and 15, 28 is also mathematically possible)

Naked vs Feffoid Raider

Since 15,28 was slightly closer to the recorded percentage I went to check the max damage.

Min hit: 20.9
Max hit: 39.3

In combination with the above, that's sufficient to determine Raiders hit for 40 damage - 14 Impact, 26 Cold.

Feffoid Warrior, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took 2 hits against a Feffoid Warrior:

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Cold  Impact%
-----------------------------------------------
21.9   1.618     21.0     15.0   ????    ????
18.8   1.538     20.2     14.2   24.8    36.4

Feffoid Warrior does 16 Impact, 28 Cold.

Feffoid Beserker, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took 2 hits against a Feffoid Beserker

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Cold  Impact%
-----------------------------------------------
13.1   1.166     16.2     10.2   19.1    34.8
13.3   1.174     16.3     10.3   19.3    34.8

Feffoid Beserker does 16 Impact, 30 Cold.

Feffoid Hunter, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took 2 hits against a Feffoid Hunter

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Cold  Impact%
-----------------------------------------------
24.3   1.618     21.0     15.0   ????    ????
22.6   1.549     20.3     14.3   28.6    33.3

Feffoid Hunter does 17 Impact, 34 Cold (trusting wiki that max damage is 51. 16 Impact, 32 Cold or 18 Impact, 36 Cold are also viable)

Feffoid Warlord, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took 2 hits against a Feffoid Warlord

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Cold  Impact%
-----------------------------------------------
17.4   1.275     17.4     11.4   23.4    32.8
24.2   1.588     20.7     14.7   30.2    32.7

Feffoid Warlord does 18 Impact, 37 Cold. (trusting wiki that max damage is 55. 17 Impact, 35 Cold or 19 Impact, 39 Cold are also viable)

Feffoid Clan Warlord, Decay Test

Wearing Gremlin, I took 3 hits against a Feffoid Clan Warlord

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Cold  Impact%
-----------------------------------------------
27.2   1.618     21.0     15.0   ????    ????
20.9   1.347     18.2     12.2   26.9    31.2
25.8   1.559     20.4     14.4   31.8    31.2

Naked vs Feffoid Clan Warlord

Wiki data for max hit didn't produce plausible results. So went to check it.

Min hit: 30.9
Max hit: 59.5

In combination with the above, that's sufficient to determine Clan Warlords hit for 61 damage - 19 Impact, 42 Cold.

Conclusions

Feffoid Outcast does 10 Impact, 18 Cold. (28)
Feffoid Bandit does 12 Impact, 21 Cold. (33)
Feffoid Guard does 14 Impact, 24 Cold. (38)
Feffoid Raider does 14 Impact, 26 Cold. (40)
Feffoid Warrior does 16 Impact, 28 Cold. (44)
Feffoid Beserker does 16 Impact, 30 Cold. (46)
Feffoid Hunter does 17 Impact, 34 Cold. (51) *
Feffoid Warlord does 18 Impact, 37 Cold. (55) *
Feffoid Champion does 18 Impact, 39 Cold. (57)
Feffoid Clan Warlord does 19 Impact, 42 Cold (61)

* See notes above (other combinations are possible for Hunter and Warlord if wikis max damage numbers are wrong for them. My feeling is these are OK but I haven't checked)

Biggest Impact percentage = Guard at 36.8%
Lowest Impact percentage = Clan Warlord at 31.2%

Jimmy B · 12-23-2007, 13:12

Naked vs Daikiba Old:

Min Hit: 10.5
Max Hit: 20.5

So Daikiba Old max hit is 21.

Goblin vs Daikiba Old:

Min Hit: 1.0
Max Hit: 8.6

I can't think of any other possible explanation other than Daikiba Old does 21 Impact Damage only.

Naked vs Daikiba Old Alpha:

I got bored after 10 PED of fap decay at which point I had:

Min Hit: 39.7
Max Hit: 76.9

So Old Alpha hits for either 77, 78 or 79.

Ghost vs Daikiba Old Alpha

Code:

Hit    Decay   Absorbed  Impact  Other   Other%
-----------------------------------------------
17.3   2.202     26.3    36.3    7.3    16.74
53.8   0.000     00.0    ????    ???    ?????
18.2   2.182     26.4    37.2    7.4    16.59

(second hit was to unarmored feet)

I'll need to verify this, but I think what we have here is:

Daikiba Old Alpha does 78 damage, of which 65 is Impact and 13 is either Cut or Stab (Electric, Burn, Cold are also possible but seem unlikely)

Jimmy B · 12-23-2007, 17:26

Right, stood infront of an Old Alpha some more and got a min hit of 39.4 and a max hit of 77.9 in the end. That confirms 78 as the max damage.

I then went a stood in front of it with Gremlin.

First hit I took was 18.7 (decay 1.693, equivalent to 21.7 damage absorbed) which wasn't interesting. (damage proportions same as above).

Second hit I took was 24.7 with decay 1.994, equivalent to 24.7 damage absorbed. Again damage proportions are as above. Here though I've protected the 15 Impact and another 9.7 damage. This rules out Cold, Electric and Cut leaving Stab or Burn.

6A plates do not decay which elimates Burn. It could in theory have been a combination of Cut and Stab, a hit on 2C decayed 0.168 - equivalent to 3 impact damage absorbed, which rules that out. So:

Daikiba Old Alpha does 65 Impact and 13 Stab.

So another confirmation on top of the Attacker that different mob maturities can actually do different damage types.

Kolobok · 12-23-2007, 17:35

Here are the details of test and the results:

1. Merp Young

Naked test: dmg taken min 8.7 max 16.4.

To find out whether merp does only impact and stab, I took two more min/max dmg tests, one in pixie and another in goblin.

Goblin test: dmg taken min 3.6 max 6.9.
Pixie test: dmg taken min 3.6 max 8.1.

Conclusion: Maximum damage 17, as per wiki. Pixie offers same protection against min dmg as goblin does, that is no cut damage. Max impact damage is 10, max stab is 7. Impact/stab percentage: 59% / 41%, again as per wiki. The last figure of 8.1 is a bit higher than 8.0 for fully repaired armor, but I believe it is the effect of the armor decay during the test, as I had to wait for quite a while before I got 8.1.

2. Merp Mature

Naked test: dmg taken min 10.6 max 20.3.
Goblin test: dmg taken min 4.0 max 8.7.
Pixie test: dmg taken min 4.0 max 11.8.

Maximum damage 21, max impact damage is 13, max stab is 8. Impact/stab percentage: 62% / 38%.

3. Merp Old

Pixie test: dmg taken min 4.5 max 13.7.

Assuming that it is again only impact and stab, it is enough to get all numbers.

Maximum damage 23, max impact damage is 14, max stab is 9. Impact/stab percentage: 61% / 39%.

4. Merp Provider

Pixie test: dmg taken min 5.8 max 15.1.
Goblin test: dmg taken min 5.5 max 13.0.

Maximum damage 25, max impact damage is 14, max stab is 11. Impact/stab percentage: 56% / 44%.

It seems that a more smooth increase from old to prov would be 15 impact 10 stab, but I was unable to get min hit less than 5.5 (that would mean max stab 10), and got a lot of 5.5 and more in long test. So I leave this result as it is.

5. Merp Guardian

Pixie test: dmg taken min 7.2 max 20.1.
Goblin test: dmg taken min 6.3 max 17.0.

Maximum damage 29, max impact damage is 17, max stab is 12. Impact/stab percentage: 59% / 41%.

Bonus obtained:

224 bottles of sweat. This is a nice amigo to test with, as it gives some skills and some sweat while testing and is almost never tired of hitting you