The efficiency of scopes/lasers - Statistics/Discussion

[Coffee]

Those tests were also done on a player with no Dodger level you say? Perhaps that is why it seems so easy to max hits prior to 10/10? I wonder what the curve would look like on non SIB weapons against someone like Skalman.

[Recoda]

Originally Posted by Coffee

Those tests were also done on a player with no Dodger level you say? Perhaps that is why it seems so easy to max hits prior to 10/10? I wonder what the curve would look like on non SIB weapons against someone like Skalman.

My guess is that the results would be very different.

It still appears as if the hit rate reaches 100% when the weapon has been maxed, but I'm wondering if there's any percentage between 80 - 100 which you reach depending on your H/A as well as the targets dodger level.

The hit rate could possibly reach X% earlier depending on your H/A as well as the targets dodger level. Perhaps the hit rate increases from 80 - 100% at a regular rate if the target has a dodger level at 100.

It would however be slower if the target has a dodger level around level 20 or so. Then your hit rate would increase rather fast in the beginning, and you would reach X% at 2.0 in H/A, and then it would continue from there and reach 100% at 10.0 in H/A.

I hope some of that made sense, sorry, it's a bit late for me.

[Doer]

In trying to find a way to reconcile the three data points (0 HA, 4.7 HA, and 10 HA), i found something that works ok:



It may be that the opponent's Dodger level modifies the curve something like this:


The problem is, at my HA this equation gives a difference of just 1% in hitrate between a level 0 Dodger and a level 30 Dodger. This function predicts a hit rate of ~0.9 at HA 0.8 and a hit rate of ~0.95 at HA 3. We need some tests by players in the range 0.5-3.0 HA laser pistoleer vs. a level 0 Dodger and a high level Dodger. Volunteers?

[Rayne Jade]

Originally Posted by Witte

I believe it is only different in PVP situations, and mobs all have the same evade of dodge level.

Do they? When I have scanned mobs I see different stats. Agility in particular and that would have the same benefit for the mob as it does for us.

Originally Posted by jdegre

A little bit off topic, but I have read somewhere in the past that mob's intelligence was tied to how often they crit you. So, maybe mob's attributes effectively play a role in how well they attack you and how well they evade/dodge your attacks.

More on topic...

I agree with this completely. If the stats on the mobs have no bearing, then why would they exist?

I appreciate everyone approaching these issues with a scientific point of view... I simply do not have the patience to figure all this mess out

[timmmers]

Originally Posted by Xen

I think MA stated some time ago that PVP was changed to allow irl shooting skills to be more important...

Hehe ...maybe that could be something to do with no loot being payable in PvP kills? Well nothing from the MA lootpool that isn't already in the hands of players at least.

They can afford to make it real in PvP, but in hunting mobs it would cost more in loot...hence the 100% possibility only in PvP?

t

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Doer

We need some tests by players in the range 0.5-3.0 HA laser pistoleer vs. a level 0 Dodger and a high level Dodger. Volunteers?

like what level dodger?

[Witte]

Originally Posted by Rayne Jade

Do they? When I have scanned mobs I see different stats. Agility in particular and that would have the same benefit for the mob as it does for us.



I agree with this completely. If the stats on the mobs have no bearing, then why would they exist?

I appreciate everyone approaching these issues with a scientific point of view... I simply do not have the patience to figure all this mess out

There simple hasnt been any proof of the mobs attributes affecting anything, with exception of stamina. Most people experience no noticable difference in their hit% between different mobs. So unless proven otherwise, I assume the hit% is the same on all mobs.

So why do these attributes exist? Well, at least we know what stamina means. But the other attributes dont realy seem to have a relation to anything. Most of them are filled in on the entropedia mobchart. I have been trying to figure it out but it didnt make any sense at all to me. Mobs with high hitrate and low attributes, mobs with low hitrate and high attributes, slow mobs with high agility etc.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by timmmers

Hehe ...maybe that could be something to do with no loot being payable in PvP kills? Well nothing from the MA lootpool that isn't already in the hands of players at least.

They can afford to make it real in PvP, but in hunting mobs it would cost more in loot...hence the 100% possibility only in PvP?

t

It's clear now that entirely different rules apply for determining hits in PvP situations, rules that make success more dependent on gear and PvP skills so as to appeal more to the players who don't have interest in hunting so much as PKing. I'd bet my pet Fido that was what was tweaked in the case Xen mentions.

Originally Posted by Rayne Jade

Do they? When I have scanned mobs I see different stats. Agility in particular and that would have the same benefit for the mob as it does for us.

I explained earlier why that isn't likely and gave some examples to support it. Now that i have verified the existence of a different effective HA in PvP, it puts to rest (in my opinion) any notion that mobs have Dodging skills because it justifies that line from the info on HA that was the main basis for questioning it. I've never noticed different hit rates on different mobs, except in the cases where the hit box is poorly designed (see for example the thread kicking around about how miner bots can't be hit with shortblade due to this).

The hit rates most likely follow the two equations below (or similar looking ones -- that's what we're still working on). You'll note that only one involves a parameter from the target.

Originally Posted by Xen

like what level dodger?

Well, ideally 100 so that we can see the most extreme effect, but since that's not very realistic unless an uber volunteers, as high as possible. Coffee is about 30, so that's the level to beat.

One thing that has been nagging me is that i know i have successfully dodged grenades multiple times. I guess it's possible that the grenader had < 10/10 on the launcher. Less likely is that the hit ability on those works differently. I'll need to ask next time it happens to be sure.

[Witte]

I just did the test I suggested with Cersus, but the result isnt realy conclusive. My HA and the skillmod were too small. HA is 4.63 and skillmob was 36, which would result in HA 6.30.

Theoreticly I would have without scopes::
80% + 0.463*11% = 85.1%
and with scopes:
80% + 0.630*11% = 86.9%

Testresult without was:
431hit/500shots = 86.2%
Testresult with was:
436hit/500shots = 87.2%

Number of shots is too small but you get pretty braindead during the test so you cant keep it up that long

Good thing was that I had 40 ped loot so made profit

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Witte

I just did the test I suggested with Cersus, but the result isnt realy conclusive. My HA and the skillmod were too small. HA is 4.63 and skillmob was 36, which would result in HA 6.30.

Theoreticly I would have without scopes::
80% + 0.463*11% = 85.1%
and with scopes:
80% + 0.630*11% = 86.9%

Testresult without was:
431hit/500shots = 86.2%
Testresult with was:
436hit/500shots = 87.2%

Strange that they were both about the same amount higher than predicted. We really need to do a baseline (0 HA) on mobs.

Number of shots is too small but you get pretty braindead during the test so you cant keep it up that long

Yeah i understand completely.

Good thing was that I had 40 ped loot so made profit

The ol' regen thing again, hmm?