The efficiency of scopes/lasers - Statistics/Discussion

[Witte]

Originally Posted by Doer

Strange that they were both about the same amount higher than predicted. We really need to do a baseline (0 HA) on mobs.

Well, one is ~1.1% off and the other just 0.3% off. But I gotta say a mistake of 2-3 hits is easy made. I have very crappy connection and the damage messages are not sequential shown in chat, so some damage messages are from a couple shots back.

One thing we could say is that if the attachments have no effect, the deviation is pretty big, about 2.1%

The ol' regen thing again, hmm?

One of the test cersu gave me 9 ped (pretty odd for a cersu, might be the regen thing) and the other 2 ped (standard loot). After that I killed one on the way to the TP with korss and it had 30

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Witte

Well, one is ~1.1% off and the other just 0.3% off. But I gotta say a mistake of 2-3 hits is easy made.

Sure is, and my bad on what i said before: i misread the numbers.

I have very crappy connection and the damage messages are not sequential shown in chat, so some damage messages are from a couple shots back.

In the ring tests i waited for the avatar's hit animation to stop before firing again, but i can understand this would be a problem against the cersumon.

If someone with 0 HA wants to do this test i could FAP.

[Witte]

To make it all a bit easyer, I heard there used to be an OCR program that reads the chat and can record the damage you do. What happened to this program? Or did it never exist? If not, maybe its a idea to create a tool like this. With help of Squee or Dutchy that should be easy to do right?

I can just set my anti RSI software on 2 seconds so the cersu doesnt die, and can let it do runs of 2000 shots or somthing, without any need of interaction.

[Recoda]

A friend of mine just did a small test on Tantillions using a Mann MPH with a Hit Ability of 0.315 - 0.33.

Total Shoots: 998
Total Hits: 800
Hit Rate: 80.16%

The hit rate should theoretically have been a bit higher according to the 80 - 91% formula, but the test wasn't large enough to cover it all. It does however seem that the lowest hit rate could be 80% from this test.

Here are the results from lower amount of shoots fired:

Total Shoots: 869
Total Hits: 700
Hit Rate: 80.55%

Total Shoots: 743
Total Hits: 600
Hit Rate: 80.75%

Total Shoots: 619
Total Hits: 500
Hit Rate: 80.77%

[Hally]

We just did a batch of Hunnir lasers and jzar scopes so if u need highend attachments to test with just gimme a pm as im very interrested in the results also

[Rayne Jade]

Originally Posted by Witte

There simple hasnt been any proof of the mobs attributes affecting anything, with exception of stamina. Most people experience no noticable difference in their hit% between different mobs. So unless proven otherwise, I assume the hit% is the same on all mobs.

So why do these attributes exist? Well, at least we know what stamina means. But the other attributes dont realy seem to have a relation to anything. Most of them are filled in on the entropedia mobchart. I have been trying to figure it out but it didnt make any sense at all to me. Mobs with high hitrate and low attributes, mobs with low hitrate and high attributes, slow mobs with high agility etc.

You got me there... until proven otherwise yeah.

Originally Posted by Doer

...I've never noticed different hit rates on different mobs, except in the cases where the hit box is poorly designed (see for example the thread kicking around about how miner bots can't be hit with shortblade due to this)...

I have no stats to support it, but I have found some mobs are more difficult to hit than others. I admit it could be the weapon of choice... like mentioned in the example of the miner bot. I find SEGs very hard to hit as well... much harder than any other mob.

A question for the group doing the testing: is the shooting with manual aiming or auto-aim (select mob and press hot key)? Also, do you guys think it makes a difference manual aim vs. auto-aim?

Thanks again for the research!! Very good stuff!

[Rival]

Since the results we seem to keep getting appear ambiguous, I thought we might be barking up the wrong tree. While everyone seems to be focusing on HA multipliers, I thought I would do a small experiment to see if skillgains are the actual intended effect of lasers and scopes. Many people have suggested this, but I have seen no actual tests yet.

The setup: Opalo +A101
Target: Foul Young only.

I did not track the hits or misses, did not track the loot, in fact I did not even track the number killed. I went out with 20 PED ammo for each run, approximately 1 hour of hunting. I checked my skills before the hunt and noted them. I recorded my skills after the hunt and recorded them. I did 10 hunts one after the other, alternating between the naked Opalo +A101 and one loaded with a Seizzt 1950RS and two Seizzt 2000L+ for a 15% skill bonus. Each run with the scope and sights added 0.65 PED to my decay bill. My Opalo has been maxed for years, my laser sniper (hit) is 26. I used the chip optimizer tool to determine the PED value of the skills earned for each run. I believe that regardless of level the PED value of skills on identical runs should be equal as the optimizer tool accounts for the varying value of skills at differing levels. I used auto-aim only. Here are the results:

Run #1 (With attachments)
9 PED of skills

Run #2 (Naked)
6 PED of skills

Run #3 (With attachments)
8 PED of skills

Run #4 (Naked)
4 PED of skills

Run #5 (With attachments)
9 PED of skills

Run #6 (Naked)
6 PED of skills

Run #7 (With attachments)
7 PED of skills

Run #8 (Naked)
7 PED of skills

Run #9 (With attachments)
9 PED of skills

Run #10 (Naked)
7 PED of skills.


Naked total = 30 PED of skills

Attach total = 42 PED of skills.

Now, granted, the optimizer tool includes chip prices, so that would have to be subtracted out somehow. 200 PED for a test may not sound huge, but trust me, I killed a rather obscene number of foul youngs. The other problem is the rounding to the highest PED by the optimizer, it is not an accurate enough tool to get exact stats. I do know I spent an additional 3.25 in attachment decay in return for an additional 12 PED towards my skills (should I have purchased chips instead). That sounds like a pretty good deal, and does not count the agility bumps I picked up along the way either.

Perhaps this is why they raised the curve for hunting related skills... now you need uber scopes and sights to get past 5.0 HA before you retire.

You make the call. One critter only tested, one single setup. I wonder if the results would vary with different guns and different targets. Or if this is simply a statistic anomaly.

PS: selling foul bone buttons

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Rival

Since the results we seem to keep getting appear ambiguous, I thought we might be barking up the wrong tree. While everyone seems to be focusing on HA multipliers, I thought I would do a small experiment to see if skillgains are the actual intended effect of lasers and scopes. Many people have suggested this, but I have seen no actual tests yet.

The other problem is the rounding to the highest PED by the optimizer, it is not an accurate enough tool to get exact stats. I do know I spent an additional 3.25 in attachment decay in return for an additional 12 PED towards my skills (should I have purchased chips instead).

I wouldn't describe the results as ambiguous. We have pretty substantial evidence that the skill mod acts as a multiplier for effective HA when hunting with unmaxed weapons.

Your experiment is interesting, but you ought to use Entropia Tools or WikiTools to do the skill calculations. Both of those are better suited for that purpose, and will give more details and PEC precision. How did you record the skills? If you did it with NRF snapshots, i have a script that can parse the full data file (in XML format) and calculate the gain between each hunt in hunting professions specifically.

Rayne: I use autoaim (right click) for my PvP tests to set the aim, and then left click.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Doer

How did you record the skills? If you did it with NRF snapshots, i have a script that can parse the full data file (in XML format) and calculate the gain between each hunt in hunting professions specifically.

I would be interested in that.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Xen

I would be interested in that.

It requires a python interpreter and isn't very user friendly. You still want it?

I hoped to get the functionality included in NRF or a similar program, but didn't get any bites from Squee or see enough community interest to turn it into a finished program on its own.

davidfalkayn on gmail could help you out if you want to send in the NRF file Rival.