The Last Landgrab?

[neomaven]

While members of the 'mega-alliance' celebrate their victory and their extremely economical accumulation of 17 land areas, they might want to consider the true cost of this victory; those land areas they acquired were certainly not 'free'.

The real cost was the quite probable death of Landgrab as we know it. I highly doubt that MindArk will be in much of a hurry to host another Landgrab event anytime in the near future, at least not in the format that so many participants have grown to anticipate and love. The purpose and spirit of Landgrab has always been for the top societies to fight, tooth and nail, to acquire land areas.

From the very first Landgrab announcement from MindArk, in VU 6.1 (Oct. 2004):

The first real virtual land grab event will commence on the new Amethera continent! Those avatars meeting the skill requirements or who have an estate will be able to travel to Amethera and take part of the land grab. The land grab means that a society will battle for the control of a land area, on which they can set taxation on and later improve to make it better.

This spirit and purpose of Landgrab has been completely sidestepped and undermined by the mega-alliance.


Let's imagine the following hypothetical scenario:

MindArk announces a Landgrab event to take place in two months, with 15 lands up for grabs. A few weeks later, a statement is posted on the forum, signed by all the leaders of the top 15 most powerful PVP societies (not necessarily exactly the same as the top 15 most skilled societies), in which they announce their intention of forming a mutual non-aggression and support pact in order to claim all of the lands with little or no combat, and to prevent any society outside of the pact from obtaining any land.

What would we expect to happen in the community in such a scenario?

1. I would expect there to be a massive, heated debate on the forum about the fairness of such a situation.
2. I believe that many of the rest of the top 50+ societies would be justifiably upset and angry at such a scenario, and would quite probably sell most of their PVP gear and skills in disappointment and frustration. Some might even quit the game in disgust.
3. I am quite certain that MindArk would receive a flood of support cases about the issue, and would seriously consider either canceling the Landgrab completely, or dramatically modifying the Landgrab rules and/or format in an attempt to prevent any undermining of the event (see below for more discussion on this).
4. The perception that many low and mid-level players have about the top societies and 'uber' players would be strongly reinforced: They are only interested in leeching off of other players deposits, cashing in on the advantages gained by starting years earlier, and hogging all of MindArk's attention and taking as many handouts as possible.

I am unhappy to report that this is exactly the situation the EU community finds itself in now, with only one exception: the most powerful PVP society is not a part of that pact, and never would be even if invited.

The real shame is that Landgrab, one of the most exciting and anticipated events in Entropia Universe, was sacrificed for the worst of possible reasons: short-sighted, simple greed.

Statements and justifications from some of the 'mega-alliance' society leaders show this quite starkly:

Originally Posted by Mercury

Phase 3 saw the negatives and benefits of a war that had been won and decided before Land Grab had even started. It emphasized both to the extreme ends of the spectrum.

Positives: No cost at all, free land, and free taxes. Some other positives were friends in unknown places, great masses of people with flawless coordination.

Negatives: No fun, no spirit in LG, no memorable stories other than "Ya we dominated with like 300 vs 30", and ultimately - no heroes.

Originally Posted by Rony

I will not go into details, but LG developed according to previous plan for us, on a possible branch calculated from the beginning...and the reality is that we won, made profit where everyone would expect to lose shitload and overall we accomplished our agenda.

In many threads discussing this year's Landgrab, many alliance members attempt to cloud the issue and relieve their conscience by saying things like:

"Why didn't Warants also make a big alliance themselves"
"It's not our fault that there is no competition"
"Warants should have been more active in recruiting members and building allies"
"Blame Mindark, they set the rules, not us"

The fact of the matter is that the society leaders of the alliance constructed the alliance with full knowledge that it would be all but impossible to mount any opposition.

Originally Posted by Mercury

The result was a flawless victory. In my opinion, too flawless a victory. There was no chance for surprise, no chance for an unknown to emerge victorious against the odds, and as it turned out - no chance for even the most skilled society to survive.

There are simply not enough participants interested and capable in PVP left over, once all of the alliance societies, their cadet societies, and other supporters are accounted for.

Let's examine the mega-alliance (I think some people will be shocked at the actual size):

2. Art of War - 20
3. Menace to Society - 27
4. ck Coat Killers - 26
6. BlackAngels HQ - 24
12. Dawn Daemons - 21
18. ck Shadows - 34
20. Shaolin - 27
31. Dawn Daemons eXtended - 17
37. BlackAngels Evolution - 29
48. Dawn Daemons Rises - 26
Warning to Society - 8


Other societies reported to support the alliance:
10. Via Dolorosa - 15
11. Elite WildD3amons - 5
12. Veterans - 8
23. Puddle of Blood - 5
NBK - various societies, 20+ helpers apparently
Skillin Villians -

Total available players: ~300

I realize that not all of those players were online and available to the mega-alliance, and that figure of 300 only represents the potential possible pool of players (of course the same would apply to Warants and any other opposition).

However, by all accounts, the total alliance force in rounds 2 and 3 ranged between 200 and 250 players at any given moment, most of whom were very well equipped with the best PVP gear (Infiltrator, LR 65/66, AL29, rocket launchers, etc.).

Here is what is left over:

1. Warants - 16
5. Amethera Demons - 16 (didn't participate, many inactive)
9. Dark Knights - 24 (only 5 or 6 available to help)
17. Ex Cons - 24 (didn't participate in LG, except for 1 or 2 who scouted around)

The rest of the top 50 society list is mainly composed of entirely inactive societies, or by societies that are completely inactive in PVP or prior Landgrabs, such as:

8. Obsidian Order - 6
13. Calypso Agency - 9
14. mjau - 5
15. ROUA - 9
16. -=SDW Elite=- - 12
21. Rangers - 10
22. La Faction Beta - 14
26. -=(ATL)=- Les Athalantes - 12
27. Les amis de Fernand - 11

It's very convenient for the alliance to claim innocence with this argument, and shift the blame to Warants' "failure to recruit allies" or to a flaw in the Landgrab rules.

However, the reality is that such potential support does not exist in Entropia. I can assure you that the leaders and prominent members of the alliance were fully aware of this. In fact many of their ranks were busy private messaging Warants members yesterday with explanations, excuses, apologies, and in some cases outright disgust with their own societies and the alliance for destroying Landgrab.


Many members of the alliance (and observers) also questioned why Warants did not attempt to claim any lands.

Some readers may not be fully familiar with the dynamics of landgrab and attacking/defending claims, or the balance of relative PVP power. Let me try to make things as clear as possible:

With such an overwhelming alliance, each member society had no worries of being attacked by other alliance societies. All the alliance needed to do was follow Warants around and help defend whichever claim we decided to attack (and yet we were still able to disrupt 4 claims). This is precisely what the alliance did in round 2.

If Warants had claimed a land, let's say one hour into round 2, here is what would have happened:

All of the alliance societies could have waited for their initial claims to be completed. Once free of any defense obligations, they would have more than ample time to mount a massive coordinated attack on our claim, with 200-250 attackers, perhaps even more. At no time did we ever have more than 13 Warants + 15 allies to help us. Even assuming if we had "built a stronger alliance" of our own as suggested (see above for how unrealistic that option was), and were somehow able to find 50 more players with decent PVP gear and skills to support us, there is no possible way that 60 players can defend against 200+, especially considering that only 13 or less Warants members need to be killed to reset the claim.

In fact, the alliance did not even need to wait for their own claims to be secured, since they had no fear of being attacked by any of the other alliance societies. The entire alliance force could attack with total impunity, and leave only a token rearguard to protect their active claims.

Thus, even if Warants had taken a claim right at the very begining of the round (so that ours would have ended at the same time as the claims of all the alliance societies), the alliance could have mounted the same mass attack force with only 30-40 minutes left on the claim timers, fully knowing that they had no risk of losing their own claims. Once any non-alliance claims were reset, the alliance would then have a very simple task of scooping up the remaining land areas.

The part that seems to have been overlooked in all of the discussions of the mega-alliance in this Landgrab in various threads is this:

Warants was not the only society hurt by the undermining of Landgrab. Mid-level societies such as Supremacy Reign HQ and Hunters Unlimited were also denied the ability to claim a land area.

Warants was not allied with any of those societies before Landgrab started (not that it would have made any difference). We did however hand over one of the claims that we disrupted (Shaolin) to HU, and tried to help them defend it.

As described above, as soon as all the initial claims ended, the entire alliance force of 200+ players attacked the HU claim en masse. Shaolin retook the claim, which was then (apparently after some backroom negotiations) handed over without a fight to Menace 2 Society.


I hope some readers will take a few moments to consider the points I make in this post. I am fully aware that I will not change the opinions of many of the alliance members; that is not the purpose of this thread. I simply wish to give other participants another viewpoint to consider.

This is not the ramblings of a sore loser, only an expression of sadness for the potential loss of one of the most exciting and unique events Entropia Universe has offered in the past.

I can assure you that not a single member of Warants feels any shame or embarrassment due to the outcome of Landgrab 2009. Our society lives for Landgrab, and based on the actions by most of the rest of the top societies this weekend, treasures it much more than they do. Our only disappointment is that Landgrab might well have been destroyed forever.

In some ways, we hope that the results of this Landgrab will shine a bright light on the current state of affairs, and perhaps help to reveal what portions of the EU community are truly dedicated to fairness, healthy competition, honorability, and the growth of Entropia Uninverse, and expose those portions of the community that are only interested in self-serving and short-sighted goals.


Finally please note:

This thread is not about Warants' results in Landgrab 2009!

If it helps to see my points more clearly, imagine that all Warants members decided not to log in at all during the last 4 days.

I think then you might see the real negative effects this alliance had on this Landgrab and possibly future Landgrab events offered by MindArk in general.

[neomaven]

It seems many alliance society members (perhaps even alliance society leaders) were very misled with the overall plans of the alliance, and how things would actually take place during rounds 2 or 3. Many seemed to think that some of the alliance societies would be battling one another for lands in rounds 2 and 3.

Take these quotes for example (posted in the Rise of the Alliance thread after Round 1):

Originally Posted by Ogulak'Da'Dragon

The reason why it was a "Tea Party" is not entirely of an alliance it was because only 1 LA is up for grabs, everything is so focused on one area. There was no need for coordinated attack plans with multiple societies, no need for a special defense unit etc.

I can guarantee phase 2 and 3 won't be no stinkin tea party!

Originally Posted by Xen

And like I said wayyy back in one of these threads, there are still two rounds and 17 lands left for plenty of action, if action is really all you want.

Originally Posted by Optima

On top of that they even seem to "know it all" before the actual landgrab (you know... the one where we can actually move around, see the invisible avatars that are holding the floating guns, dont need to relog all the time, where fastkeys work etcetc...) even started.

But in short:
Yes ofc there are alliances, thats no secret (or surprise i hope. Anyone expecting "every soc for themself!" scenarios is pretty damn naive i think we can all agree on.)
No, youre way off on details, but if you think guessing is fun by all means...

I would suggest giving it a rest though and see what actually happens in phase 2 and 3 before you act like youre mindreaders and know the detailed plans of every soc/alliance in this event... You might be surprised

Originally Posted by Photon

Be prepared for a very interesting and exciting 2nd and 3rd round this year!

Originally Posted by Mice

Dont be so quick to judge how LG will turn out this year, theres alot of Landareas to be fought over in diffrent categories and still theres time to do something constructive with that time.

Originally Posted by Sirhc

LG 2009 is far from over and I am sure it will be exciting up to the very last LA just like the last LG. If you are just now giving LG 2009 a strategic look it might be wise to make a mental note for next LG to maybe start thinking about it the day its announced.

Originally Posted by DRDoom

Nevertheless, I'm sure next rounds will provide spectacle and I hope I can logon then.

Originally Posted by Mercury

As for a boring LG, I am sure there will be plenty of fighting in the coming days. Death is a part of life.

Originally Posted by Leafren

In any case, everyone should stop the bitching and buckle up for the next phase. Let's have some more fun!

Originally Posted by Xcite

All i can say is theres another 2 stages to LG2009, and personally i think there will be some awesome battles going off be it warrants, DK, ck, m2s AoW or even in the top 11-50 socs.

Apparently one of two things happened between the time those comments were posted and the completion of rounds 2 and 3:

• They were completely misled or uninformed about how the alliance would operate in the following rounds.
• They intentionally gave the wrong impression (perhaps for tactical reasons) to people reading the thread, and knew full well what would happen.

Originally Posted by Xen

You seem to be wrong.

I think people should withold judgement until the entire war is over and some things are explained (maybe).

Originally Posted by neomaven

I hope I am wrong, actually.

I hope to see M2S, AOW, cK, BAHQ and other members of the "alliance" fighting each other for LG lands. That was the whole point of the post you quoted.

The actions of the alliance societies yesterday seem to indicate that we won't see that happen, however.

It seems I wasn't wrong, unfortunately.

[Kartunes]

Lets predict the end of Land Grab instead of making a post on how to improve it. I have been in game for 3 land grabs at this point. during my first I had no chance at all and it was only a goal to try for. In the second I tried to support a friend's soc only to be killed by Ubers in one shot rarely even getting a shot off myself. This land grab was very one sided I agree but in the past Land Grabs it was still one sided with warrants having the advantage, was that ok? In reality it is still very one sided this is an event for about 250-300 players out of how many?


I expected more from you than just complaints
And a predicton of the end of Land Grab


PS: Feel free to leave a comment in my thread about positive changes for LG 2010

[Xen]

Condensed version:

When Warants sits around at a falx land claim, mostly unopposed because no one can defeat them, everything is fine, we role!

When Warants plans nothing and gets nothing, it's the end of the world as we know it.

---

[BigBertha]

One question (but it might be a stupid one)!!!!
Why not having a LG For some LA´s, and the societie´s exemple:

M2S v.s Warants - 1 LA
Warants v.s AD - 1 LA
Etc, and just concentrate on the Gameplay from those specific societies and the one that can hold the LA without any other societies or alliances at all added in the struggle win the LA?
Just Society v.s Society without any help?

Okey, might be a hard way of participate and look at the war but that may be quite easy for MA to implemend that other than the named society-members dont have any PVP-rights?

Do u understand what i mean? Or do i make my question a bit fuzzy? (yeah i am not that good at english)

[Futurama]

#2

Yes, was kinda weird when that chomper DNA was given to M2S without a fight in the 2nd and 3rd round. Well of course i can`t talk about their negotiations (who might have paid who, made promises, agreements etc., etc.).

[mfc]

And another whine post from a Warants member

[Selene B]

how to put it..without mega-alliance other societies who joined their efforts would have seen mostly only empty hands, massive amount of peds spent and Warants plus few other very top socs getting the most.. with relative ease

[Leafren]

I was hoping this thread would bring something new to the discussion, sadly it doesn't. Each land grab has been the last as we know it, new rules are made for every version. If you feel you couldn't have possibly beat the alliance, well too bad for you. Again, in my opinion we and our allies are not to blame for that.

We won. World domination.

[neomaven]

Originally Posted by mfc

And another whine post from a Warants member

Apparently you decided not to bother actually reading the opening post and just prefer to make a cynical and meaningless reply.

Originally Posted by neomaven

This is not the ramblings of a sore loser, only an expression of sadness for the potential loss of one of the most exciting and unique events Entropia Universe has offered in the past.

I can assure you that not a single member of Warants feels any shame or embarrassment due to the outcome of Landgrab 2009. Our society lives for Landgrab, and based on the actions by most of the rest of the top societies this weekend, treasures it much more than they do. Our only disappointment is that Landgrab might well have been destroyed forever.