Existing problems with Mentor & Disciple arrangement

[Drooe]

Here is an idea brought forward by my society Leader Ebony Knight. I would like to know what you all think or if you have any other ideas like this/ ways to improve this idea?

Existing problems with Mentor & Disciple arrangement.
1) Mentors that don’t do anything.
2) Too hard to get mentor skill gains
3) Disciples giving up on EU
4) Disciples not able to get a Mentor after achieving very low skills
5) Mentor skill level doesn’t reflect how many graduates Mentor has helped.

I have been mentoring since May 07 when I got my own broadband connection and graduated from my Mentor in April 07.

I help my disciples by providing focus and healing them while they sweat mobs. I buy the vibrant sweat @ 1.0 pec per vial. I still do that even though the market price has dropped to 0.5 - 0.6 pec. On average I buy 1 to 4K of sweat per disciple depending how long they stay in EU. I buy loot as well at fair prices. I give plenty of advice to help my disciples and society members on how to gain skills more efficiently. I help my disciples get, as many TP’s as possible while I’m on and that they want to get in a session time we have together. I mention this to show that I do what I can to make EU interesting for new starters and that there must be some other reason why they don’t stay.

I recognise that a lot of help that I provide can be done through a good society, which is one of the reasons why I formed Southern Cross Training Society. It acts as a surrogate Mentor to a lot of players that have become members or from other societies. I usually find that around 30-40% completion, a disciple no longer needs a Mentor except occasionally for advice on what piece of equipment to upgrade to or location for a specific type of material to loot or mine.

I find it very discouraging that after all that help I’m not guaranteed a skill gain and that there is no place to show that I have helped 6 people graduate.

Here are my suggestions on improving the problems listed.

Disciples can have more than 1 Mentor. When a Mentor takes on a Disciple they have to select which skill they will help that disciple. Depending on Mentor’s profession level in Mentor, they may be able to select more than 1 skill to help the disciple in. Only 1 mentor edition gift is awarded per disciple. The first skill the disciple graduates in, only that mentor gets the gift, other mentors can still gain a mentor skill. Should a player get too many points in a skill that skill cannot be chosen for a Mentor to help in. Once a Mentor gift has been awarded, no new skills can be used for mentoring. A time limit of when the other skills have to be completed after mentor gift is awarded might need to be included as well. Include a Mentor Reputation score that reflects the number of graduated disciples.

Should one of the skills involving textures be included in the disciple training skill list like colouring?

This competing in helping disciples will ensure new players are not stranded and only serious Mentors get rewarded. This should also cut back the support cases stating Mentors don’t deserve Mentor gifts as well. This will partly help in retaining new players in EU.

[Dorki]

I don't agree with more than one mentor per disciple thing. Many mentors do all professions they can afford (as I do for example), so they can give advices and help to skill up in any profession.

But it would be great to eliminate disciple farmers, as they destroy reputation of honest mentors and literaly steal potential disciples from them(us). Maybe MA could put in some rating system in which disciples would rate their mentors and if that rating is too low, they should be prevented from taking new disciples (at least for some time - few months or so). Ofc. this is not entirely my idea, or at least I think I saw something like this writen in some other thread.

About disciples giving up on EU. Well, here it is only up to mentor and disciple. Maybe some "events" for disciples could help. Like group sweating, hunts, protection on their mining trips etc. And ofc. show them that there is always samething they can do if they are bored with sweating or hunting ... If that doesn't work, then its disciples fault.

I think that skill limits is a bad thing, as many new players try something and then they realize they should find a mentor to guide them ...

About mentor skill. I cant tell anything. I have mentor skill at 1 and have only 1 graduated disciple so far, so it reflects how many players i helped to graduate . Another disciple is on his way so ill know more after he graduates . But i dont take loads of disciples (totaly i took 2 one graduated and one just started playing few days ago), so maybe itll take some time before i notice that something is wrong with my mentor skill.

[MrBrown]

I 100% agree that the Mentor/Disciple system is in sever need of an overhaul. I have some ideas to hopefully remedy this and have sent it to MA. When I get a response I will post.

[Billposter]

why not simply allow disciples to kick there old mentor _at any time_ (without the ability to get a new one after, say, 100 rifle). that way 'fake' mentors wont get any rewards, and im sure nobody would ever kick there 'real' mentor if he/she helped you.

[NightwolfAA2k5]

I agree there are some issues with the current arrangement. I agree with pretty much all your points

- Nightwolf

[sledge-]

Yes the mentor system needs a redo but to allow more than one mentor does not seam to be good for me. Most longtime players that mentor can give advise on any profession anyway and if you know you want to craft well than get a serious crafter.
A reward system is not a bad idea but it will give the professional diciples (the ones that look for a mentor just for gifts) an advantage to ruin a good mentors reputation - mentoring does not mean any free stuff at the end of the day - ask alice.

As it is a lot of ppl simply stoped to mentor as it is a lot of work (when done good) and no way rewarding in skill or the mentor gifts - can be a lot of fun though
I'd prefer a System that gives the mentor better skillgains and helps to get diciples ready for the game after - i'm not sure on how to do it though

[DocKangey]

Most people who have actually mentored somebody else (meaning, invested into somebody else) will agree that there is a whole lot wrong with the EU mentoring system. It has been discussed many times. Many great ideas and proposals have been presented, both here and to MA. The lack of response from MA brings to mind what Alice (if I remember correctly) has stated in a similar thread:

For MA, mentors are there to encourage new players to deposit.

That pretty much sums it all up. I don't expect much changes in the mentoring system any time soon. It still all works out pretty well for MA, and come to think about it, even disciple farmers might serve the purpose to get people to deposit (and being able to quit that discipleship faster)

The only way I can see change happening is, if the "community" of serious mentors starts to become self organizing. If a Mentor Network is built up (not my idea, has been posted before) for example. It's not gonna happen until a group of people, who is serious about it, steps up and takes matters into their own hands. Even then it will be a gamble, but who knows, it might be worth the effort.

[ErikJarman]

Originally Posted by Billposter

why not simply allow disciples to kick there old mentor _at any time_ (without the ability to get a new one after, say, 100 rifle). that way 'fake' mentors wont get any rewards, and im sure nobody would ever kick there 'real' mentor if he/she helped you.

I am in favor of that as well, about two weeks after I got my mentor he pretty much stopped coming online and stopped talking to me but I was too far along in my skilling to kick him (beyond the 10 percent). I have since gotten the 2000 skill in rifle (enough to graduate) and bought some skill implants that I can't yet use because my mentor still doesn't come online and doesn't answer my emails. So here I am not able to kick a mentor that I shouldn't even have anymore and I put in a support ticket to MA asking them to release me last week and still no reply to my ticket.

[Wody]

Originally Posted by ErikJarman

last week and still no reply to my ticket.

Mindark tries to make sure your mentor will indeed not come online in a reasonable time, which can take several months. Your mentor might have fallen ill or could be on a holiday or something.