Q&A Answers (Aug-Sep 06)

[Joat]

Originally Posted by DarkFire

What would be the difference between the crafter using the BP and another using the BP?

None, but such BP is probably only droped to, and used by, a fulltime crafter.

[DarkFire]

Originally Posted by Joat

None, but such BP is probably only droped to, and used by, a fulltime crafter.

I agree on chances of that happening is greater than chances of noob crafter getting it, however, i still don't see how it would hurt EU with a lending system

[Joat]

Originally Posted by DarkFire

I agree on chances of that happening is greater than chances of noob crafter getting it, however, i still don't see how it would hurt EU with a lending system

Thats just one of many scenarios. What would hurt it, is the complexity
of a system like that.
F.ex, what can be lent to others? Anything that you can use a attachment
on, will probably be a problem, since we can't repair stuff today with
attachment, then the system will probably not be able to split comb to
get stuff back to owner. And most people probably want to put amps,
plates and so on. I guess they will.
EU should stay out of "ComplexCity" and try to live in SimpliCity as much
as possible.

[DarkFire]

Originally Posted by Joat

Thats just one of many scenarios. What would hurt it, is the complexity
of a system like that.
F.ex, what can be lent to others? Anything that you can use a attachment
on, will probably be a problem, since we can't repair stuff today with
attachment, then the system will probably not be able to split comb to
get stuff back to owner. And most people probably want to put amps,
plates and so on. I guess they will.
EU should stay out of "ComplexCity" and try to live in SimpliCity as much
as possible.

I think the problem with repairing/trading items with attachments on is that the items is considered as a whole. I do think it would be possible for MA programmers to add code trace the item (they appear individually in the inv. list on the homepage), unequip it, deattach all attachments (or remove it from BP book) and return it to the owner once the agreed time-period had expired

[Joat]

Originally Posted by DarkFire

I think the problem with repairing/trading items with attachments on is that the items is considered as a whole. I do think it would be possible for MA programmers to add code trace the item (they appear individually in the inv. list on the homepage), unequip it, deattach all attachments (or remove it from BP book) and return it to the owner once the agreed time-period had expired

Well, if that can be done, it should be possible even in repair.
But, as you say, its not a imk2 with a e-amp15, its a item of its own that comb.
So it can probably not "see" parts as individualls when combined.
But if it was possible, it should be able to trace individuall parts when weapon
are in the repair-window, repair them in list individually, and then back to
inventory as one item. Even if it looks like one item all the time.

[Tangine]

Originally Posted by Snuggins

Please notice that the quote of mine you responded to was directed towards the other poster. His short and glib style was a little more provoking than the way you write about the issue, but I still think it is a really bad idea.

I wonder if I am the one who writes in a short and glib style... Anyway, i learned a new word thanks to you, not being a native speaker i didn't know "glib".

Originally Posted by Snuggins

You can't balance the economy on a lending system.

I don't think Mindark is "balancing" the economy anyway : they need to pay 50 employees full time, so balance is not the matter at hand. The economy is completely unbalanced anyway. One example : a huge number of the crafted items are not sold to users but to trade terminal because they are useless and exist only for skiling purpose. That is not balance...

Originally Posted by Snuggins

unscrupulous ppl will take back their items before the loan time is up. But since the system was designed to be done only "for free" the scammed ppl would have no recourse other than spam the forums with "witch hunt" threads and flame wars.

That would depend on the way the lending system would be programmed : time limit ? no time limit ? automated return to owner ?

Originally Posted by Snuggins

My basic point is that this game is based off of capitalist RCE and your idea is essentially communism. These two ideologies are diametrically opposed. It can't work without becoming something very different than what the game was made to be, and continues to draw new players in on the basis of claiming to be. If you don't like the idea of needing to own the items you use, you could probably find another game or activity with a totally fantasy economy that you like much better. Entropia, which is largely about item ownership, would suffer from the introduction of a lending system.

Now that's the bottom line. We always come back to this ideological issue. I cannot say i am a communist, because communism doesn't exist, and is ideologically very complex and interpreted in many different ways. Marxist, maybe in a way, but even the most conservative economists share a common ground with him... I think the real question is about the way we control EU. it is supposed to be our world, our community, we make it work. But we have a very small control on the economic rules of this world. In real life, if you lend stuff and people don't give it back you knock at their door.
And most of time you will get your item. In real life the items we craft don't go straight to trashcan, spending resources for nothing.
My point is that the lending system discussion is one more example showing that we can only influence the economy of EU in the way that has been precalculated by Mindark, and that we won't get a chance of bringing any new or controversial idea into the system. I remember Marco saying it would be great to have politics in EU, with political parties, lobbies, etc. This implies a certain daring, an open mind. Well, my disappointment is that right now, Mindark is not innovating but being awfully conservative in the way they handle economy. Owning is more important than using. And you are right this is typically capitalist and we don't have a choice, we can go play somewhere else if we don't like it... But the economy that works in EU is just as much a fantasy as any other : you don't find 90k peds on an animal in capitalism either... Anyway, i +rep you this time because the reasons you stated here are in my opinion the real and serious ones.

[Tangine]

Originally Posted by DarkFire

and no, it wouldn't hurt the market for anything but "the best around", as good items are rare, and thus can't be everywhere at once. when socmate A is borrowing my mod stark, socmate B can't. when i'm using it, neither of them can. ergo, there are clear advantages to owning items yourself even with the lending system in place.

yeah... when the landgrab comes, i want to have my camo jungle and try to take down a few people even just for fun... so : i'm ready to pay peds to actually own it, because if i just borrow it, well, when it comes to big events and such, well i probably have to give it back to someone who wants to compete as well... lending systme wouldn't hurt the competition spirit neither in combat, nor in economy in my opinion... especially because after trying a good item, you probably get such a thrill (imagine a modfap in your hands for one hour, what would you do ?) that you want to buy it more than ever, even though you can't...

[Qualia]

Who cares.
Not like they will Ever let the world know the game exist.

[TommyDaGreat]

Originally Posted by DarkFire

Actually, this isn't the thread for asking questions...

DOH!!!!!

They almost have the same title

[trance]

Thanks marco, for all this information.

i am happy that some things going whit pets...

and i wil have fun in space, if we can go to other planets.



i c'ant wait of the new VU's ......
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hypnotica trance .... www.woodroom.ch/mp3/trooper-01.mp3 - a real trance track