Clarification about Entropia banking operations

[LarsMac]

Well, the clarification seems very clear to me.

"we sold these licenses to certain individuals, and the banking will only be officially endorsed by MA when carried out by these licensed individuals. If you claim yourself to be a banker, and have no license, you are in violation."

This is similar to RL, where you are permitted to conduct real estate business if you are licensed, or you may contract to do construction if you are licensed, or sell automobiles if licensed. If you have no license, you cannot advertise that you do these businesses. You can, however (at least in most states of US) buy or sell real estate, or automobiles, and you can build and sell a house, within the limits set forth by the state. Where I live, you can build and sell one or two houses in a calendar year, without being a licensed contractor. You can buy and sell up to eight automobiles in a calendar year without being a licensed auto broker. You can purchase and sell a house without being a licensed Real Estate broker.
You can even loan money without being a banker.

But you cannot advertise yourself as a business in one of these categories, without a license from the state. I suspect whatever country you inhabit has similar rules on certain businesses.
MA is within their rights to make the same requirement. MA stated that they will enforce transactions conducted with the licensed individuals. They will not support transactions outside of the license.

If you deal with an unlicensed individual, you leave yourself vulnerable to being scammed. MA states they will not interfere when you complain to them if you borrow from an unlicensed banker. All trades are final. And any complaints about such transactions will be dealt with like any other scam complaint.

[QUOTE:]
Originally Posted by J.C Cougar
What will happen if i for example have a couple of friends ingame who wants to buy something nice but doesnt have all the cash required. And i offer to lend them the money they need to purchase the item/items and ask them for something in return as a security deposit just to protect myself from beeing scammed?
Am i then acting as an Illegal banker or is it just if they give me some % on the money i lend to them? BTW i usually give some % to people who help me out ingame and also irl. Its not to ripp off anyone,its just common decency.[/quote]

That was clearly stated by Marco earlier. All trades are final. If you and another player agree to some other arrangement, it is not the responsibility of MA to enforce that agreement. They will offer no recourse if one of you does not hold up your end of the agreement. Per Marco, if you conduct business between friends, they have no interest in the transactions. but if you advertise that you are banking and offer to loan ped to strangers in exchange for items, you are now an unlicensed banker, and if there are complaints against you, they will treat you as a scammer.

I doubt that, with their resources, they will actively hunt through transacts, looking for unlicensed banking operations, but when there is a complaint, they have already stated their policy, and will act accordingly.

[BlackMagicWoman]

An interesting post:

Originally Posted by EarlVonKippler

since marco stated the reason to ban player run loan services is because they are looking out for noobs, i thought this little nugget from a grand forum member would be helpful.

http://www.entropiaforum.com/forums/...49&postcount=1

Quote:

timtim i don't think really did anythig TOO bad, i dont know though.

or this beauty
http://www.entropiaforum.com/forums/...&postcount=177

SO, MA has been real interested in scammers. just ask neverlie, i am sure they will let you know about 100's of successful scams. i still see them rolling into PA looking for the next victim.

the post can be found here:

MA create :weekly posting of "Accounts locked since last week"

[Sionkiewicz]

If Scamming were the real reason behind this the loan system would have been created long ago and open to all to use. Instead, it took selling several "Banking" licenses for large sums of money to bring this system into play and then only for those that paid the money.

Let's call it what it is. MA is protecting the interests of those who have invested large sums of money into their game by eliminating any external competition. Any other affects this has is secondary.

[dbelinfante]

Originally Posted by LarsMac

Well, the clarification seems very clear to me.

"we sold these licenses to certain individuals, and the banking will only be officially endorsed by MA when carried out by these licensed individuals. If you claim yourself to be a banker, and have no license, you are in violation."

This is YOUR interpretation. What he actually said was (non-verbatim) "Anyone engaging in money lending schemes will be regarded as a scammer."

This is similar to RL, where you are permitted to conduct real estate business if you are licensed, or you may contract to do construction if you are licensed, or sell automobiles if licensed. If you have no license, you cannot advertise that you do these businesses. You can, however (at least in most states of US) buy or sell real estate, or automobiles, and you can build and sell a house, within the limits set forth by the state. Where I live, you can build and sell one or two houses in a calendar year, without being a licensed contractor. You can buy and sell up to eight automobiles in a calendar year without being a licensed auto broker. You can purchase and sell a house without being a licensed Real Estate broker.
You can even loan money without being a banker.

First of all (and this has been said before): This is not RL. This is EU. There may be similarities, but they hardly more than coincidental. There are many more differences than similarities

Second: Who's to say real-estate isn't the next target? Arms dealing? Any kind of trade at all? If you absolutely HAVE to draw comparisons between EU and RL, this is the relevant one: More and more regulation, accompanied by protectionism of established business. Less and less freedom for new business opportunities, less and less free enterprise. This is the precedent that MA is setting.

If you deal with an unlicensed individual, you leave yourself vulnerable to being scammed. MA states they will not interfere when you complain to them if you borrow from an unlicensed banker. All trades are final. And any complaints about such transactions will be dealt with like any other scam complaint.

MA stated they will treat the lender as a scammer. They will lock his account. That means they will not wait until someone complains about it.

I doubt that, with their resources, they will actively hunt through transacts, looking for unlicensed banking operations, but when there is a complaint, they have already stated their policy, and will act accordingly.

If they observe someone advertising a pawnshop service like CBE's, either in-game or on EF, they have more than enough to go on. I don't think the players behind such initiatives will take the chance. What do you think?

[demoniac]

Originally Posted by dbelinfante

This is YOUR interpretation. What he actually said was (non-verbatim) "Anyone engaging in money lending schemes will be regarded as a scammer."

Exactly. The threat was not directed at situations where there has been some wrong doing and complaints made. It was very clearly directed at people that advertise such services. Marco even clarified this was the case by feigning regret for how this would affect reputable and trustworthy services.

[TrinketSoul]

Originally Posted by LarsMac

Well, the clarification seems very clear to me.

"we sold these licenses to certain individuals, and the banking will only be officially endorsed by MA when carried out by these licensed individuals. If you claim yourself to be a banker, and have no license, you are in violation."

This is similar to RL, where you are permitted to conduct real estate business if you are licensed, or you may contract to do construction if you are licensed, or sell automobiles if licensed. If you have no license, you cannot advertise that you do these businesses. You can, however (at least in most states of US) buy or sell real estate, or automobiles, and you can build and sell a house, within the limits set forth by the state. Where I live, you can build and sell one or two houses in a calendar year, without being a licensed contractor. You can buy and sell up to eight automobiles in a calendar year without being a licensed auto broker. You can purchase and sell a house without being a licensed Real Estate broker.
You can even loan money without being a banker.

But you cannot advertise yourself as a business in one of these categories, without a license from the state. I suspect whatever country you inhabit has similar rules on certain businesses.
MA is within their rights to make the same requirement. MA stated that they will enforce transactions conducted with the licensed individuals. They will not support transactions outside of the license.

If you deal with an unlicensed individual, you leave yourself vulnerable to being scammed. MA states they will not interfere when you complain to them if you borrow from an unlicensed banker. All trades are final. And any complaints about such transactions will be dealt with like any other scam complaint.

[QUOTE:]
Originally Posted by J.C Cougar
What will happen if i for example have a couple of friends ingame who wants to buy something nice but doesnt have all the cash required. And i offer to lend them the money they need to purchase the item/items and ask them for something in return as a security deposit just to protect myself from beeing scammed?
Am i then acting as an Illegal banker or is it just if they give me some % on the money i lend to them? BTW i usually give some % to people who help me out ingame and also irl. Its not to ripp off anyone,its just common decency.

So are you prepared to say if these three individuals advertised and stated they are a pawn shop, or credit union, MA has no interest since they are not saying they are a bank?

Also are you prepared to say if they make a variant and explain that it is actually a buy/sell company, where they buy your items then 5 days later you are obligated to buy them back for the price paid plus a small percentage, will keep them from a ban.

Also, In Entropia I only deal with friends, and/or people I know of to be friendly... I wouldn't be willing to give items to people I don't know or never have heard of... If everyone they reach considers this transaction between friends Will MA leave them alone?

See I can read too and the statement is far too vague, and introduces loopholes. This means MA will twist this statement however they feel when ever they feel like their basket of eggs are at risk. Now if it is twisted by the player (3 scenarios I just mentioned are a few ways, even more ways it could be twisted) that is threatening their eggs and you are at risk of being banned and labeled a scammer...

[Shadowsong]

This interchange illustrates where confusion originates in these debates, in my opinion

Originally Posted by LarsMac

"we sold these licenses to certain individuals, and the banking will only be officially endorsed by MA when carried out by these licensed individuals. If you claim yourself to be a banker, and have no license, you are in violation."

Originally Posted by dbelinfante

This is YOUR interpretation. What he actually said was (non-verbatim) "Anyone engaging in money lending schemes will be regarded as a scammer."

Well, what was actually said was :

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.e

Guys, we have the quote facility, there is really no need to paraphrase anyone's statements. There are many facts which we do not know, let's at least not twist the ones we do know.

[dbelinfante]

Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Guys, we have the quote facility, there is really no need to paraphrase anyone's statements. There are many facts which we do not know, let's at least not twist the ones we do know.

I couldn't be bothered, so thx. For proving me right also.

[BlackMagicWoman]

Basically, if I am being considered by MA as an "uncomfortable" player in their game (and I usually am ) and they want to get rid of me, and if I loan stuff to friends of some friends and in the same time those guys want to give me some extra %, I can be very well locked in the blink of an eye...
MA: "You'll never know what hit you"

The problem is that I may have invested some good amounts of money and time in this game and all that would just vanish instantly, just like the Holy Inquisition burned to ashes many bright and clever people during the Middle Ages...