Armor/Clothing Changes

[KP708]

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

While the recent inclusion of a 2 PEC value deterioration of clothes and armor when equipping was indeed an attempt to minmize client side lag, it was also a step in improving the clothing system and incorporating it into the overall Entropian economy. The visual deterioration also means that, as with other items, clothes will now need to be maintained in good condition to reap their maximum benefits i.e. appearance.

As our universe expands with more and more users, a clothing system that allowed garments to be produced with low condition and have no noticeable difference to garments of high condition, would be an imbalance that would only get bigger the longer it remained. The solution was to allow clothing to deteriorate when used, as they do in reality.

These changes also compliment our future plans to increase participant customization of clothes. Amongst other things participants will be able to apply different materials like wool, leather and latex to customizable garments. This will allow talented tailors to compete in a free market with unique high quality clothing.

This is mixing up about 3 different things:

Armour decay

The justification quoted has nothing to do with armour decay - as has been posted above, armour already decays when absorbing damage (ie being used). This is consistent with the model that EU follows - use something and it costs decay. Eventually you need to repair or replace it. Armour is not being used when you don it - no need to decay there as well.

I mean put on a perfect set of armour and already it no longer gives full protection? If they want realism, how realistic is that? Did I scratch the faceplate severely with my nose when donning it? Have I dented the armguards designed to withstand blows from a 5 ton mob, when i knocked it with my elbow? Realism? No sorry that's garbage imo, sorry to be blunt, but it is.

But... suppose a hunter changes armour once every 15 minutes, and hunts on average 4 hours a day. That's 16 changes at 14 pec per day, or 2.24 a day cost. So 10000 hunters, over 365 days is about 8 million ped a year. Now I start to see why MA want this tax.

Could the stuff about tailoring and so on have been a misguided attempt to sweeten the pill of extra armour decay by giving us the new and thought to be highly desirable feature of clothing condition? Do we actually have it all backwards and the armour decay not the tailoring market is the real driver for this?

Repair clothes to look ok

Clothes need to be repaired to max TT to look fine - ok, this is an interesting new idea, and why not. It's a bit harsh having to pay, in some cases 100s of peds to get clothes that used to look great looking how they did when you bought them before the VU, but as was suggested, they could simply make the TT lower, or gift the repair to people

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

a clothing system that allowed garments to be produced with low condition and have no noticeable difference to garments of high condition, would be an imbalance

Absolutely fine. yes if a tailor produces a TT 20 garment, it should be better in some way than a TT 1 of the same garment. After all it cost the tailor more to makeit. No problems with this. If you want it to look decent, repair it after making, or buying, or make it with res/condition to get the TT up.

Decay clothes when donned

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

The solution was to allow clothing to deteriorate when used

This is where it all goes wrong. This unrelated statement does not get justified. I cannot see why allowing clothes to deteriorate when used is the solution to requiring garments of low condition to look worse than garments of high condition.

I mean this last point is not a problem - why does it need a solution. What they claim to be a solution is actually creating a problem.

They then go on to suggest this decay cost is in some way related to the desire to offer a beter market to tailors. Well I cannot see how it will do.

If my clothing decays, why would I go to a tailor to fix it - I just use the repair terminal. Now if the tailor can do it for less, I go to the tailor, but a tailor will only offer this service if they can get it for less. So do we have some kind of tailor licence that allows certain people to repair clothes at the terminal for less than others? Or maybe only people with the tailor licence will be allowed to repair clothes?

Other than the tailoring licence, I cannot see how decaying clothes makes more of a market for tailors.

Another possibility is that they remove the possibility to repair clothes. They decay and you cannot repair them, just have to buy new. This would improve the market for tailors by creating a steady demand. Effectively we are talking about (L) clothes here.

If this is the plan, then fine. Just tell us clothing is moving to the (L) system.

One hopes that the additional cost of replacing clothes will be offset by the increased markup on hunting loot, due to the increased demand for tailoring materials. A bit rough on miners, but there you go. Maybe they'll bring out (L) jewelry to aid the miners a bit.

But the information and explanations on all this have been muddled up completely in the news release as far as I can see.

And still no justification for the additional armour decay on top of decay which we have already.

Oh and if yu remove armour, you should not have to re-equip clothes. If you get a charge for an action, it should be an action you can control.

Or alternatively just add a 1 pec per hour decay to your ped balance. Erm I mean a monthly fee. :S

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

Armor/Clothing Changes
12 Oct 2007

While the recent inclusion of a 2 PEC value deterioration of clothes and armor when equipping was indeed an attempt to minmize client side lag,

The BIG LIE continued. How does taxing everyone improve client side lag? Can't wait to hear a BS explanation for that one.

As our universe expands with more and more users, a clothing system that allowed garments to be produced with low condition and have no noticeable difference to garments of high condition, would be an imbalance that would only get bigger the longer it remained.

Please explain what the hell "imbalance" you are BS'ing about.

These changes also compliment our future plans to increase participant customization of clothes. Amongst other things participants will be able to apply different materials like wool, leather and latex to customizable garments. This will allow talented tailors to compete in a free market with unique high quality clothing.

Leather was already inplace but you shut it off. Talented tailors were already able to compete, now not so much since demand for clothes has hit bottom. Very strange that we are expected to pay and pay and pay again today for planned changes that may not come for years if ever going by MA's track record.

[safara]

I must have missed it.

Why am I being charged for putting my armour on?

[HvSW]

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

...a clothing system that allowed garments to be produced with low condition and have no noticeable difference to garments of high condition, would be an imbalance that would only get bigger the longer it remained...

This is simply gibberish.

It was like this for years and there was no imbalance.

Let me see:

(A) Shooting with unlimited gun which is at 5% of TT Value - what kind of imbalance it causes - none.

(B) Wearing the garments which are at 5% of TT Value - what kind of imbalance it causes - the same = none.

Or is somebody trying to say that gun repaired to 5% of TT Value shoots worse than that repaired to 100% of TT Value ?!?

What kind of half-arsed excuse is this ?

And where is an explanation about the Armour wear?

What kind of imbalance causes that ?

I think that MA has forgotten, that as EU is not a game, EU Participants are not 10 year old children who can be fooled so easily.

Please don't buy this humbug a protest here:

Stop Whineing and Act !

Petition against the 2pec decay

[kygon]

Originally Posted by Vech

But kygon, we're already paying a fee, but we can't customize anything yet...

Besides, is customization going to be free? I don't think so... I doubt all the customization material will return as TT value in clothes or as cash when full TT is reached. I would rather pay the fee of customization as lost TT value for materials used, than pay 2pec everytime I wanna change my shirt. Now we're going to have to pay them both.

This equipping fee is still going to send a message to new and potential new players of Entropia, that you can't even change your underwear without loosing money.

planning and partially implementing new functionality cannot be bad thing, eu when I 1st joined seemed very

I imaged MA a few years ago...
MA VU manager: right guys stop playing pvp with your maxed out shit and tell me what we have ready for this months vu
MA dev team: well we got this done
MA VU manager: does it all work?
MA dev team: well kinda we've not tested it yet but it should be fine


they learned that implementing small incremental changes is less risky , easier to test, and when it involves additional costs to players easier for them to swallow.

it bound to cost to customize clothes and I'd say MA are taking the piss if it costs any more than a few ped at most (image storage etc.)

[ZippO]

Originally Posted by JohnCapital

MA doesn't get it.

If the 2 pec decay was for putting on clothing only, and not on armor, then I'd bet most of us could swallow the situation much easier. (2 pecs/piece is still high, even for clothing, but, whatever.)

What has many of us pissed off is the 2pec per piece of armor.

I'm betting that is what MA originally intended, but the problem is that the coders couldn't figure out how to code decay into clothing but not armor. Obviously, they couldn't write that part of the code to (in a decent way) check if it's armor or clothing you are putting on.

They simply went
Instead of

MA, you want 2 pec decay? Fine. Leave it on the clothes but take it off the armor.

At least that'll be a sh!t sandwich we can choke down.

yes exactly! How the hell can they justify a 2 pec decay on limited armors anyways... So y ou are telling me every time i want to take off a piece of infiltrator it would cost me 20 pec decay per piece!!! (1000% @ 2 pec) that is freakin insane... PLZ MA TAKE OFF ARMOR DECAY. I can see the clothing decay being justified for a few reasons

[thoreau]

Originally Posted by Bertha Bot

Armor/Clothing Changes
12 Oct 2007

Amongst other things participants will be able to apply different materials like wool, leather and latex to customizable garments. This will allow talented tailors to compete in a free market with unique high quality clothing.

Originally Posted Here

I have a college degree. I do data analysis for a living. I have co-authored papers that have been published in academic journals.

But I have no idea how a 2 pec decay charge for changing clothing/armors correlates with the ability to use wool, leather, and latex.

Can someone please take a few minutes to educate me?

[Dirk Rand]

Ok, we got an explination for cloths, how about the armor decay and now the need for foot protection.

It was only a matter of time until cloths decayed. If MA wants to do cloth decvay this way then fine but I have issue with certain cloths items now becomeing unequipped when armor is equipped. How come that feature is added now that there is a charge invovled in putting the item back on. It should have been that way from the begining if that is how they wantedit to operat. The least they could have done is to have all cloths have full TT to start this process

We pay decay on armor when we hunt and get hit by mobs so why is there additional decay no just to put it on?

Another armor piece to purchase to get full protection. If anyting, Ma shold have created several generic foot pieces to fit particular protections not force all players to have to get an additional for every set of armor they use or somehow allow the foot armor to be purchased at tt for any full set a person has.

[Cougar]

In agreement with other posts in this thread:

The 2 pec fee was introduced to make the clothes decay, although i don't like it i am conformed with it.

But there is no need of adding yet another source of decay for armors ffs, and it is even more penalizing for owners of (L) armors.

[Nihilist]

the only thing that would have made more sense is adding small amounts of protection types to all clothing items..

lol