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07-14-2008, 14:25
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#31 | |||||||
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Marauder
   
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ofc we discussed this matter before and just waited til someone would made this thread :P
so we already prepared answers etc we just copied and pasted :P Quote:
so if it was really such a good thing to loot the chip is argueable a bit :P nice dream btw, would be fun to see that  |
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07-14-2008, 16:31
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#32 | ||||||||
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Elite
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Quote:
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07-15-2008, 12:08
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#33 | |||||||
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Dominant
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Hi,
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There's some basic game mechanics that have proved to work, over many years now - providing different roles for the participants, if teaming is wished, for instance. Different roles that are carefully balanced, so that not one role can be a jack-of-all-trades, so that every role has it's strengths and weaknesses, and so that a carefully composed party is stronger then the sum of its members. This gives more people the possibility to feel "important" sometimes, and it enforces to sometimes actively search for a lacking suitable party member - thus helping the social interaction. And it helps to counter the monotonous "Ghost/ Gun" armies we're now suffering in EU. The existent MF and melee professions would suit very well into such a scenario, and taming and decoys could add greatly to a diversification like this. We could have much more fun, and the economy could only benefit, if there would be a by far bigger number of tools needed to be produced. But since MA earns enough with the monotonous "Ghost/ Gun" armies they have apparently stopped developing anything other profession. They even have stopped to drop a lot of items needed for these. So the only conclusion can be that they want it to die. Well, maybe not melee, at least it seems to have found a reservate in the high end PvP. Not much participants, though, will be able to enjoy it - at least not without buying the skills to reach the region needed; skilling manually to L52 (for some of the new genesis tools) would take decades and even more money than the skill chips ... Have fun! Btw: Guess you meant the most successful game where my Gnomish rougette loves to whack huge Tauren warriors? There's not much new in it, most it contains is adapted from other, older games. The merit of this "snow storm company" is that they compiled the ingredients incredibly carefully, that they have put a lot of effort into it (and continue to do so), and that they have created a very rich and complex gaming experience - from detailed options to adjust nearly any aspect of the interface, over mighty communication tools and very sophisticated trading possibilities, up to an own safe but efficient macro/ AddOn language. MA falls very short in any of these points. PS: This "Btw:" is my personal opinion, for sure; and don't reply, plz, I'd not be allowed to say anything more - discussing other games is strictly forbidden! |
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No more Sig here.
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07-15-2008, 14:06
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#34 | ||||||
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Old
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You do not take in account several important things:
The most important thing in those "other games" is balance. Sure they are polished, got different professions BUT you are allowed to have only ONE - thus there is always need to party with other types of players. In EU the most important thing is FREEDOM and REALISM (and CASH  ). You can be whatever you want, team with whoever you want, gain skill in EVERY PROFESSION you desire. No equality is needed nor wanted. You want to be a uber - you know what to do. You want to be average hunter/miner/crafter - you know what to do; you want to be a sweat gatherer - you are free to do it. Nobody forces you to make a single profession avatar - who is good at one thing, and sux at everything else. Another good thing - in EU the stone-scissors-paper system is thrown away. If you got EON - no motherfu..er thief can touch you with some specially designed anti-knight skill. If you have Tango, no 90 HP "mages" can cast you some "Freeze" spell and then beat you with wooden sticks. Something even bether - the servers are not full with 70 lvl maxed heroes, wondering when is the next siege or Megaboss event. In EU everyone has his own goals. Events are the spice, not the main course. The other games are easy, EU is difficult. The other games are static. EU is dynamic You see, this topic is about "mind force". You discuss things about "force" but i think the more important word here is "mind". Why bothering to fill the game with useless mindforce toys that present in every other game? Why making the new players "important" with such artificially designed "support" professions like "buffer", "agro-er" and so on lame-game fantasies .. If they want to be important - they must work for it, fight for it, pay for it. Mind force has nothing to do with "Importance". Players always want more "Force" but they forget to use their MIND. Well - it's not working like that. If you have the mind - the force will come. But no matter how much force you got from MA with new MF tools and professions - there's no guarantee that the "mind" will improve, if you get what i mean |
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07-16-2008, 10:02
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#35 | ||||||||||||
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Dominant
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Hi,
thx, Killmore, interesting read! +Rep! Just I don't agree ;-)) Quote:
I'll unlock Seren-whatever these days with LB, and will reach 5K LB soon - and then? Thx heavens I have skilled a little HG on my way, guess I'll sell all this (for me) meaningless LB/SB skills and become part of the "pew-pew zombie army" ... Quote:
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You can be whatever you want, right, as long as its a pew-pew profession. (Well, Ra-ta-ta works, too ...) In other games I'd be a so-called "Hybrid", nearly 5K in LB, and nearly 3K in SB, LaserPistol and LaserRifle each. I can carry sh*tloads of stuff w/o getting slower, have nice evade, even good paramedical skills. In other games I'd be a valuable part of any party, because I'd be able to fulfill quite some different roles. In EU I'm reduced to my 3K in HG, and as such to be the nOOb in any party. Quote:
"Stone-scissors-paper" has proved as a way to create diversity, tension and the need to form party's - all things that are very much welcome in any MMORPG like installations. EU doesn't have - even if there are rudimentary other professions. But these are abandoned, and anybody skilling them may be regarded as eccentric at least (I'm one of them!). There's no choice, there's no freedom, there's some few professions that are comforted in any way possible, and others that are completely forgotten. Quote:
Very different? Quote:
I'm asking myself how we could "force" the "mind" of "Mind"Arc to finally finish what they've begun, how to convince them to empower the many forgotten professions (and story lines, and etc.), how to make them to get this our "game" more various and more thrilling. Right, all the EU we know may be just a Beta to what MA really plans, but we're in it, and we've invested our time and our money in it. I accept your position (you're a gunner, for sure), but I'd really wish more diversion - EU's more and more becoming boring and monotonous. Not only for me, but for a lot of long time participants I know (and that I don't know but that are telling me here). Have fun! |
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07-16-2008, 11:36
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#36 | |||||||
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Old
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Quote:
I was talking about REALISM. You say "Swordman is useless in team of laser gunners. I want equality, give me more power in my blade!". Well, have you ever imagined trying to kill a submachine gun dude with your sharp katana ? I'll tell you what will happen in reality - you'll have more holes in you than you can count The army has ranged guns - they do not use sabers anymore. Why don't you say to a general - "Hey, you need to balance the army to diversify the monotonous ra-ta-ta-ta. Give them two-handed swords instead of assault rifles". It'll be interesting to see his reaction. If you want to kill something nice and good - you must shoot it, not cut it. That is REALITY. If you don't like it - don't enter the PvP zones because they are full with those b'stard snipers You say: "Some professions are abandoned!" Wrong ! There are only 4 professions in EU, but they are very well mainained: Hunter. Miner. Crafter. Trader (including LA, bank, mall owners here). Your weapon of choice (swords in your case) is not related to the profession you practice - some people want more power in Mindforce, some want bigger Axes and knives, some want flamethrowers - but that won't change the hunter profession at all. It remains the same. And the "good stuff" will be as expensive as it's now. Even more. With the new tools eventually introduced by MA the ubers will still be ubers, the noobs will still be noobs. No change here either. Talking about ubers, armed with pre-beta guns and bored of the game. Well, i really don't think that the game is full of them. In fact, they are quite a rarity. Most of them chipped out and sold gear, or completely left the game in other way. Whoever stayed, bored or not, has his uber options and uber events too. Same for the newbies, same for the pew-pew "zombies". Summary: You like the game - you play; you don't like it - you move along or try something new. It's not necessary for MA to create new content every time when someone is bored, right ? Changes are something nice, but they have to be seriously reasoned. And the argument "I want to be more valuable player in parties" is not quite valid in a RCE universe, IMHO.  Last edited by AL Killmore; 07-16-2008 at 11:54. |
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07-17-2008, 05:25
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#37 | ||||||
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Mature
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Still in todays modern military the most specialized troops are highly skilled in hand to hand combat and knife/blade fighting, sure they are also trained in firearms but blades have not been forgotten and are just as important to these uber troops.
I am not complaining but one of the first things I noticed is even though melee fighters in this game earn strengh it does not enable melee fighters to wear better armors. If MA wanted this would be an easy way to help balance melee with firearms. MA has a big chance to make changes with the introduction of the new game engine, I just hope they take their time and don't rush things. To me it would be a shame if they go through all the trouble and expense of a new game engine and it is only eye candy. Mind Force is certainly an area that could use some love and though I have not usef MF that much to date I hope it becomes a viable option. |
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07-17-2008, 10:25
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#38 | ||||||
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Marauder
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well, i guess that many many of the pew pew zombies do pew pew because it is more eco
the military usually cares less about money spend per shot that brings us to realism military also uses explosives, those are more effective against groups grenades, rockets, bombs, etc so, if realism is the goal of all the korss400 ppl out there why don't they use rocket launchers? maybe because one rocket doesn't rip 10 atrox apart at once (which would be extremly "eco" btw again, which is why military uses it :P) so the point is, realism in a roleplaying game isn't that much granted i guess BF or CS serves that better not that ppl aren't using the knives there either though simply because one thing, not even mentioning the revival if you would be attacked by say a velociraptor in RL (quite unlikely), i doubt the pew pew gun could stop it that easily and if it reaches you you have a problem yet, you tend to survive many hits of them with armor same for drones that kind of armor doesn't exist RL either, so realism isn't granted there either my last try to heal someone with my mindforce RL wasn't that successful either, but i was out of ME as well  this isn't about plain realism, else you would play something else most likely and since realism is quite ruled out i remember when the axe 1x0 was the most used weapon, by newbies and midlevel ppl alike because it was hilarious eco, not because it did ratatatata or pew pew it was simply because it was better than jester/justifer mk2 in saving cash the same applied for 2x0 and kat honor later you saw far far less pew pew ppl because melee had a place the change in this case brought L stuff not just that you can amp laser starting weapons, now being able to max the amp damage as well, which makes them pretty eco but also because the markup if the L stuff goes directly to decay, since you can't repair the weapon again and gotta spend a similar markup again so opalo compared to L opalo compared to L melee opalo, the L ones sold at 200% would be like 8 max dam dealt for 2.02 for opalo 8 max dam dealt for 2.04 pec for L opalo (0.02 decay*200%) 8 max dam dealt for 4.04 pec for L melee opalo (2.02 decay*200%) this means, that all those 107% and above melee weapons are around as eco as a 180% korss, the higher the markup, the worse it gets i think a nano katana L at 140% was as eco as a 300% korss or so ^.- not to mention availibility with 1 full tt korss you can shoot like 18k ammo away i guess for melee that would be like 4 100 ped swords, each time with funny markup another funny thing is, how many mobs do actually reach you with pew pew guns especially bigger ones most likely would you rather have a pistol in your hand when your foe is infront of you or a knive? ah, wait pistols and guns had to be reloaded the ammo doesn't appear in the gun magically from an inventory RL to mindforce and realism i think the military would be quite interested in how to kill ppl with their mind, especially on bigger distances i guess there were a couple of studies by the military there as well, if i am not mistaken i don't know if some kind of "tank" or "healer" avatar would be possible here, as long they don't get a bonus of some sort, which wouldn't fit imo it would fit however if you would have acceptable eco L blades in acceptable availability and that the mob rather stays with the sword guy than the ranged one, whats quite logical that would require AI improvements of course ah, wait, we had one the last "AI improvement" of MA left the mob behavior totally untouched, but they grew smarter, so smart so they got more HP  that its more eco to have a fapper on big stuff than doing it yourself, is also used already just MF not, since it costs too much to the story and a finish a finish isn't something i really want, but the stories, and we had, err, well, don't know if you can call it story, but something like that was there a while ago like the robot war settlers came to calypso, prepared by robots, robots rebelled, were defeated here but had some base on another planet and beamed bots here from there now, in order to defeat us, the bots spend there time to walk around aimlessly in the wild not long ago we got some berets, which were explained that we survived the first wave and defeated the bots i am sorry, but when did this happen? and does 1 wave really takes, dunno, 5 years? considering that we defeated them, why do they still walk around aimlessly in the wild?? some ppl might say that the beret was just given to calm ppl down after VU9.0(or was that the halloween gifts? or both?), which makes the story a lame excuse or the ending of the "an asteriod is going to hit Calypso" story (to explain enmatter and ore finidings on Calypso, which was actually nice, nowadays they just appear, i mean, whats the likelyhood that an ore/enmatter on a since like 3 years or so mined place appears that haven't been found before?) ended with a red text message "a bright light was seen in the sky" or so the story was that the imperial fleet or so shot it down still, the ending was lame i was outside, there was no bright light, i can tell you anyway, i think i will stop after this post, it is going more and more offtopic :P |
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07-17-2008, 11:31
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#39 | |||||||||||||
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Dominant
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Hi, seems I have to be very cautious for what words I use ;-)) Well, I'll quickly correct some things where I feel misunderstood, then finishing this close-to-OT excursion: Quote:
"Finishing" in an environment like EU can only be wished for sub-storylines, events or bugs - for sure not for the development of game mechanics, right? But, after all, isn't MF, taming, decoying or things like some sub-storylines (Ahhhh, the *** ...) "finished" in fact? When have we seen the last addition to one of these? A word can have many meanings. Since I'm no native English speaker I might often use the wrong one, so I kindly ask to consider the context. Thanks! Quote:
For sure I wouldn't run up a hill, yelling, to get mowed down by MG fire, right. But this is out of context, anyway. We talked about "hunting in team", and there's no need yet to slay my team members ,-) We kill rather stupid monsters in hope of good loot. There's another strange thing, btw: In a 2 ppl team I'm usually frantically hopping around the mob, doing my best to change it into hamburger, while my brother in arms relaxedly stands in place unloading his rifle. Getting ways more "Agility" skill then me - Realism, right ... Quote:
But we are not in the RL anymore when entering EU. There's no more realism after logging in - there's a virtual reality where there's other laws! Have you ever seen anybody in RL concentrating with some swirlies, then beaming away in a whooosh? Have you ever seen anybody in RL directing green beams at an animal, then collecting some bottles of animal sweat? EU has it's own laws, it has it's own physics and it's own reality and realism - don't mix these up with the RL counterparts! This doesn't work. But a poorly implemented game mechanic remains a poorly implemented game mechanic, no matter how much we're discussing matters of reality or realism - MA has chosen to implement different techniques to hunt, but has then abandoned many of them and stopped further development. Without further notice to the users, thus effectively f***ing those that trusted in them and spent (RL) time and money in it. Quote:
Right, my most skilled profession is "Swordsman (Hit)", not hunter or miner. In EU's own terminology. My occupation may be hunting or mining, but this only shows up in the groups the professions are organized - "Combat", "Manufacturing", "Mining", "MindForce" and "Miscellaneous". There's no "hunting" or "trading" at all - these are occupations we chose & name. "Game" terminology is different. Quote:
But they are still a strong factor in EU - MA wants them as role models, and does anything to cater them. The majority of the events is made for them, and the majority of the newly introduced items, too, as well as the majority of the newly introduced mobs. This is a crux that I have realized in any comparable game until now - the few high end players eat up a lot of development power just to keep 'em happy, actually distracting development resources from things that a ways higher number of participants would be happy for ... I haven't seen a solution for this, until now. Quote:
I don't like quite some evolvement it took - and I'm writing here in the (maybe futile) hope that expressing my unhappiness about maybe might help to correct this issues. I'm sure someone from MA reads here, and giving them my feedback is needed to improve - how would they know what things the participants don't like if all of us here would just jubilee about anything? I am interested in the development of EU, and I am interested in it getting more staying and depositing inhabitants, because this will help to fill my loot pool. And, for sure, I'm interested to do what I can to make it catering my needs as much as possible - but most importance, for me, is to have this my virtual universe keep running, and growing. Quote:
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