Shocking poll (for me at least...)

[DaveJ]

Originally Posted by Kerham

i shall test tonight:

detonate a bomb. indicates a deposit at 30 m range at 10 m depth. don't claim. go 20 meters further and detonate again u will get signal 50 meters, still 10 depth. that means cylinder. if i walk 20 meters and range will exceed 50 m or no signal at all it means is a sphere. i will publish the results.

Or it could mean a 60m detection radiues, 61m, 62m, 63.1876134m radius etc. As I said, MindArk like to make things complicated.

[DarkFire]

Originally Posted by DaveJ

I do not believe it is a cylinder, for 2 reasons:
(1) MindArk likes to make things nice and complicated
(2) That would make the depth of a deposit irrelavant to how difficult it is to find. This would mean that ATH size deposits could be found from a range of 50m, instead of almost directly ontop like they are

well, people have found stuff 40m away and 50m down
and about your point two, no it wouldn't. look at the edit i made from Sarahs pic: only two ores are detectable, but the third is inside the radius, but too deep to find. Do newbie players ever find anything deep down? is the dept a constant range, or can you have a lucky hit like with a weapon? (ie, can a noob get a 100+ dmg hit with a foxtrot / a 100m detection depth?) Does deposits become "flagged" when found, so testing isn't possible?

[DaveJ]

Pretender is by no means an uber miner, yet he found a 3k ALL TIME HIGH dianum with tt finder (this also disproves that better finders have longer range). I do believe that ALL deposits can be found by a noob, just that increased skill has increased range (in all directions) so it will be easier to find such a deposit. In cases where a deposit is supposedly found far away but deep, it is normally because the miner is running at the time.

[Pretender]

erm....i indeed think ATh is luck related, but also skills

if you get ATH you either had LOTS of luck (like me)

or you have LOADS of skills, meaning you got experience in mining yourself, and you have a pretty good idea where everything is

[The Mighty]

A question... if we had to plot the whole of eudoria... positioning bombs in such a way to cover the whole map.... do you think we would make enough money back from mining to pay for the bombs?

[Sarah]

I'm back with more doodles! This is what it logically would look like if I was in charge. There are no proof or even indications that what the picture showing is true, but based on the nature of deposits (depth, distance from bomb and varying detect range) it would be very logical.

The following picture shows how and where it would be possible to find deposits on varying dephts if PE uses a spherical detection volume:



A: A small deposit very close to the surface. The circle on the ground shows within which area it would be possible to detect the ore.
B: Larger and deeper deposit. The area from which you can detect it shrinks with depth.
C: A very large deposit, at a very deep depth. Almost at the maximum detect range. This results in a tiny area from which you can detect it.
D: A huge deposit, too deep to reach with the current equipment and skills.

This would mean that smaller deposits would be easier to find. Deeper deposits can be found by noobs, but with a much smaller detection area. The really really deep deposits can only be found by a very skilled miner with enormous luck. Any comments?

Note: This is just an analyzis of what it should look like in my opinion if MA programmed it like I would. Nothing that is a fact, proven or even hinted.

[Pretender]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I'm back with more doodles! This is what it logically would look like if I was in charge. There are no proof or even indications that what the picture showing is true, but based on the nature of deposits (depth, distance from bomb and varying detect range) it would be very logical.

The following picture shows how and where it would be possible to find deposits on varying dephts if PE uses a spherical detection volume:



A: A small deposit very close to the surface. The circle on the ground shows within which area it would be possible to detect the ore.
B: Larger and deeper deposit. The area from which you can detect it shrinks with depth.
C: A very large deposit, at a very deep depth. Almost at the maximum detect range. This results in a tiny area from which you can detect it.
D: A huge deposit, too deep to reach with the current equipment and skills.

This would mean that smaller deposits would be easier to find. Deeper deposits can be found by noobs, but with a much smaller detection area. The really really deep deposits can only be found by a very skilled miner with enormous luck. Any comments?

Note: This is just an analyzis of what it should look like in my opinion if MA programmed it like I would. Nothing that is a fact, proven or even hinted.

you might be right, but how do you explain an rich deposit (biggest type know so far) that i found with all mining skills under 500? it would be referred to class D i think?

@the mighty: probably not. but it would be nice ;-)

@sarah: i second ur drawing.

a personal observation regarding the tools. i am currently 2975 in LB and my hits with axe 1x0 looks like: 8, 12, 10, 29, 25, 20, 10 13. I tend to think that mining tools works the same. (and my detection-related skills (perception/geology/prospection etc) sucks bigtime comparing to my LB) :-). Continuing the rationament, IF you are very close to a big deposit and IF u are lucky u might hit a big one, as a noob.

Silver made an interesting observation, that noobs tend to find much more poor and small deposits than experienced miners. In my opinion, that would mean that, in the same very spot, an experienced miner would get a bigger deposit than a noob.
However, if u make tests with two miners, a noob and an uber, at a same spot, if one of them finds a deposit of a certain size, the other one will find the same size (where size i speak about number of pulls, of course).
That would mean two things:

- either the deposits are preexistent, as IRL geological deposits and anybody can find them
- either the deposit is triggered from a virtual state by the bomb, becoming visible to everyone (again, an interpretation of Silver's theory).

I tend to sustain the second, and in a certain area, would be like this: in a detection range of let's say 50 meters, exists a certain amount o ore, in a virtual state. When a noob triggers it with a bomb, having low skills, he gets many little deposits. When an uber miner triggers, he gets a single or two deposits medium-large-very big.

The "average" areas would hold a medium qty, so a noob would get deposits poor to average, while the uber would find a large or a great or an ample and an average. The "biggie" areas, would give to a noob a significant to vast or even rich, while for an uber would be a rich for sure.

That would make a viable paralell with the hunting. Take a noob and Starman and put them to hunt caudatergus. Starman, with certain weapon, maybe would kill it in one shot. A noob would need probably 10 hits.

What is to be done for a noob? Prospect, prospect and prospect, in order to get skills and hopefully find "average" areas to get close to breaking even. Do not hope for a rich or the waiting for it would be highly stressful.

Unfortunately we have reached this large publicity about mining only now, when the new VU will probably change somne things. I wish this cooperation would last aswell after the following 2-3 weeks (my estimation to get a pretty clear picture of the coming new system).

Regards,

K

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Pretender

you might be right, but how do you explain an rich deposit (biggest type know so far) that i found with all mining skills under 500? it would be referred to class D i think?

I actually can't explain anything. This is just a drawing of what would be logical. But say skills do not affect the "maximum" range for bombs, but instead the skills make it more probable to actually find a deposit.

Example:
-----------------
Say the "maximum" detect range is indeed 100 meter. Same for noobs as for an uber. No deposits are deeper than 100 meter. That is what we presume.

Then maybe an uber has a 100% chance of finding a deposit at 0-50 meter absolute distance, and then gradually going down to say ~10% probablility at 100 meter absolute distance.

A noob maybe has 100% chance to find from 0-10 meter absolute distance, and then gradually going down to 0% at 100 distance.

Then noobs and ubers -can- find all deposits, provided they are in the right spot, but ubers have higher probability of actually detecting on.
-------------------

I actually don't know if you can fail to detect a deposit within your range. But if you can this could be a probable hypothesis.


EDIT:
Compare it to crafting; "A newbie can succeed with a level 10 BP, but it's not as likely as when an uber tries"

or with hunting; "A newbie can do full damage, but not as probably as when an uber tries".

I'll draw another doodle. They are fun. .)

[Sarah]

What is it's like this? (Again I have no proof or data to support it, so it's just a theory.)



Green: Close to 100% chance of detecting deposit
Yellow: Mediocre chance of detecting deposit
Red: Close to 0% chance of detecting deposit (but it is possible)

A newbie could have the same maximum detect range, but have lower probability of finding a deposit. An uber has almost 100% chance of detecting anywhere inside the half-sphere (or half-cylinder if you believe in those).

How about that? (These posts are mainly to make people think and actually start investigating the different theories. There might be some truth is some of them.)