Moneta Bank Comments

[AJack10600]

Originally Posted by In Love With

couldn't agree more - and tough shit if they have (no one would be holding my hand if I buy 25 tonnes of copper above LME price)


Again, I like to stress my point, it is illegal in Germany to charge such interest rates and considering that all loans are 100% security loans (by the simple fact of the item(s) held by the bank exceeding the borrowed amount) it is (excuse my french) fucking ridiculous to charge such interest rates

Angel

Zinsmethode, Zinsformel, Zinsrecht (for the German speaking population)

Have to agree with that but then again I still don't get why we need "banks" in here anyway... these are no banks, these are pawnshops with a high fee ...

[Wormie]

Originally Posted by Aziphirael

Yup its definitely steep, but I did see a post from Neverdie that basically said that running the Banks at Real World rates would have meant going bankrupt. In other words the current system has too high a cost base to allow real world interest rates.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! EU has too high cost base!!! NEVER!!!! Thx to all resellers and all greed... eh, cool merchants EU has not a high cost base, with 10k USD you can do fine whole month. Is that too much?

But seriously, if I ever needed to use greater amounts of cash in EU, I still would take out the loan from local IRL-bank with 15% interest. Even if EU banks had 30% rate, I would use IRL bank or pawnshop....

[kira-red]

Originally Posted by Aziphirael

[...]I did see a post from Neverdie that basically said that running the Banks at Real World rates would have meant going bankrupt.

that's nonsense. are you sure he said that?

how can a business which has no expenses go bankrupt? it may take them longer to recover their investment, but perhaps they paid too much.

anyway, to get back to the purpose of this thread, I'd like to hear what this pawn shop's "standard" services are and what they are proposing for "unique" services. I keep reading their statements over and over but all I get are a bunch of words which, to me, don't say very much. even their main "global payment" proposal seem shrouded in mystery.

I was initially interested in the economic review posted here, but then I realized it seemed little more than an information collection mechanism for the host. I was sort of hoping that it would eb the other way around.

[burnsey]

Originally Posted by Wormie

But seriously, if I ever needed to use greater amounts of cash in EU, I still would take out the loan from local IRL-bank with 15% interest. Even if EU banks had 30% rate, I would use IRL bank or pawnshop....

Especially since charging more than a certain interest rate is illegal in many countries in the world.

[QuintusMagnus]

Originally Posted by Aziphirael

Yup its definitely steep, but I did see a post from Neverdie that basically said that running the Banks at Real World rates would have meant going bankrupt. In other words the current system has too high a cost base to allow real world interest rates.

I wonder why the cost base is so high...does MA charge them rent on those huge banks? I'd think MA would, after the initial buying, let them have the plot as a freebie, so that the costs can be low and the economy can be more liquid...but then when HAS Mindark had a sound economic idea lol, other than creating a virtual universe w/ money to begin with....

[SteveAzrael]

Originally Posted by QuintusMagnus

I wonder why the cost base is so high...does MA charge them rent on those huge banks?

300ped/month IIRC ( plus another 10 for the external advertising space )

[rhogenbe]

Originally Posted by kira-red

that's nonsense. are you sure he said that?

how can a business which has no expenses go bankrupt? it may take them longer to recover their investment, but perhaps they paid too much.

anyway, to get back to the purpose of this thread, I'd like to hear what this pawn shop's "standard" services are and what they are proposing for "unique" services. I keep reading their statements over and over but all I get are a bunch of words which, to me, don't say very much. even their main "global payment" proposal seem shrouded in mystery.

I was initially interested in the economic review posted here, but then I realized it seemed little more than an information collection mechanism for the host. I was sort of hoping that it would eb the other way around.

Hmmmm,

I will try and do a small market analysis based on what i so heard from people around me.

You need to regain 1M ped inside a 5 year period.
There are 4 competitors on same the (small) market.
Active potential market is probably currently 50k players (estimate, might be a little high but not that much I think).
My guess ~1% of the potential cutomers will actually use the banks. Leaving each bank on average 100 customers a year. So you need to make at least 2k ped a year of each those customers.

I could be of with the numbers though. But you can see it is not really a big booming market. If EU really would grow in that 5 year timeframe it might get interesting though. So I believe it is a bit of a gamble towards the future.

If MA really goes public. I think most people who have a bank/LA/mall will buy shares. They will probably also get together as a group to make a united front. This would finally give them some potential influence on how EU will develop in the future. I am sure they will certainly use that influence.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)

[kira-red]

Originally Posted by SteveAzrael

300ped/month IIRC ( plus another 10 for the external advertising space )

so, operating expenses of 310 ped per month ($372 per annum). for the sake of argument, I'll just use 380 per year.

Originally Posted by rhogenbe

You need to regain 1M ped inside a 5 year period.
There are 4 competitors on same the (small) market.

no. the owners like to toss that number about as justification. the 1M ped is the operating float from which the loans are made. think of it as the terminal value of the pawn shop. the pawn shops were bought for an average price of 77K with the three high end purchasers paying 50% more than the other two. based on the sale data, I'd price the licence at about 65K.

for the sake of generating bigger number to illustrate my point, I'll place the licence value at 80K - which about 3/5ths of the difference between the average high purchase price and average low purchase price.

so, 5 years, 80K represents about 16K. 16K on a float of 100K is about 16% per annum. I do think it's unlikely that these pawn shops could capitialize all of their float. perhaps, 50% would be considered a decent market. for the sake of arguement, I'll assume a conservative 25% - that's 25K. 16K across 25K is about 64%.

even at credit card rates of 20% per annum, 25% capitalization would yield 5K of business over the year for each pawn shop. if you want to say there are 50K players and 1% of them will use the service in a consistent manner, the five pawn shops must generate 25K (5K * 5) in revenue which becomes $50 per customer (25K / (1% of 50)K) consistent over the year.

if you want to be more aggressive and do the ROI in 2 years, the numbers become 40K per year (40% of 100K).

anway, whichever way I work the numbers, I fail to see any justification for the 99% rates that they want to charge. in my country, this sort of behaviour is called usury and you go to jail for it.

as far as I can see, in their current form, the pawn shop's management must have the skill of a wet piece of paper to fail. the whole thing is just too simple. the only other possibility is that the market will not produce the required revenue, but that is not solved with high interest rates.

[SteveAzrael]

Originally Posted by kira-red

for the sake of generating bigger number to illustrate my point, I'll place the licence value at 80K - which about 3/5ths of the difference between the average high purchase price and average low purchase price.

I could be wrong here, but my understanding was the licenses were $80K, not 80Kped.

[kira-red]

Originally Posted by SteveAzrael

I could be wrong here, but my understanding was the licenses were $80K, not 80Kped.

that's right, stupid me. I'll correct the mathematics. I was suppose to be working in dollars.