The new Swedish surveillance law

[Count Joe]

Originally Posted by Dreamdancer

The problem is, buying a music CD in itself does near to nothing for the artist. If you really want to support your artist, visit their shows, and buy the CDs ON THEIR SHOWS, not at Amazon.

What makes CDs so expensive is the dying distribution juggernaut (the MAFIAA, as most call it), that cannot add value to music any more. These people cling to their antiquated business model, and add nothing of artistic merit to music.

My personal "distribution model" looks like this: I download music. If I like what I downloaded, I will visit the artist's show, and buy the CD there. I admit to those artists that I have the pleasure to meet in person that I downloaded their music, and offer some compensation. Most give me CDs for it.

Regards,
DD

sure support the artist you do best if you buy the cd directly from them (if they play near where you live). But its no good recordlabels having such a hard time. whos gonna dare to finance a CD if they cant make money? and for an artist that dont have the money to market him/her self is deeply in need of a label. so for every cd you download and not buying instead, you are destroying, in a small scale, the chance for an artist to make a living out of it

[Dreamdancer]

Originally Posted by Count Joe

sure support the artist you do best if you buy the cd directly from them (if they play near where you live). But its no good recordlabels having such a hard time. whos gonna dare to finance a CD if they cant make money?

Just WHY would anyone WANT a CD? The silver disc is DEAD. Publishing music is advertsing, it always was, until the RIAA came around and made it a business. This business model is NOT valid anymore.

Originally Posted by Count Joe

and for an artist that dont have the money to market him/her self is deeply in need of a label.

Wrong. Labels are part of the invalid business model. These are the days of garageband.com and the like, wake up.

Originally Posted by Count Joe

so for every cd you download and not buying instead, you are destroying, in a small scale, the chance for an artist to make a living out of it

Please take the time to read my post. I download music I hear about on the Nets. This is like going to the "record store" (no such thing anymore), and listening into a CD. Just as if I was in the store, I WILL NOT buy crap, CDs with one good song and 8 fillers and the like.
Please get this right: NOT every CD that is downloaded is a lost sale. The way people are using recorded music is changing. The maths of the content mafia are completely wrong, I can point you to studies and rulings that support what I say.

The music that I like, I buy. And I go to great lengths to circumvent the distribution mafia in doing so. If you are owner of a record label (your reasoning looks like you were), well, move FAST and see to it that you do NOT depend on physical music sales for your business. Mind, sandbagging your customers into buying something they do not want is also not a valid business model.

Regards,
DD

P.S.: If we're not careful this will become a completely offtopic flamewar. I do not want this, just for the record.

[-Ra]

Originally Posted by Dreamdancer

The problem is, buying a music CD in itself does near to nothing for the artist. If you really want to support your artist, visit their shows, and buy the CDs ON THEIR SHOWS, not at Amazon.

What makes CDs so expensive is the dying distribution juggernaut (the MAFIAA, as most call it), that cannot add value to music any more. These people cling to their antiquated business model, and add nothing of artistic merit to music.

My personal "distribution model" looks like this: I download music. If I like what I downloaded, I will visit the artist's show, and buy the CD there. I admit to those artists that I have the pleasure to meet in person that I downloaded their music, and offer some compensation. Most give me CDs for it.

Regards,
DD

actually that is wrong.. I have spent a majority of the past 17 years in the music industry, and the lack of album sales can and will destroy a band. When a band gets signed toa label the label does more then enjoy the money from the album sales. it has to get a production crew, booking agents, merch designers, tour support as well as spend a few hundred thousand dollars or more on recording the album and who knows on how much any videos might cost.

If music is pirated insted of purchased, it hurts the band, the record label will cut funding if they are not making any money. and then the band is screwed having not recieved the money they where needing to finish the tour or albums. I have seen many bands hurt just this way.
Oh! and if the record sales of one of the lables biggest signed acts does not get the cd sales expected, wether it be because people pirate instead of purchase or the album sucked, it hurts all the other bands on the label. the record label will not take the hit to help the bands, the let the bands starve themselves and pack into a smaller bus or sometimes their own cars to do the rest of a tour.

And anyone who might be ok with pirating music, should not complain if the ever get scammed in EU, it is no different.. you steal music, scammers should be able to scam your gear

Now back on topic..

Sorry to Here Sweden has now opressed it's people more.. I tihnk this is something that is happening everywhere more and more.. Here in the US it is no different, and growing up the government always boasted about how we are supposed to be the most free land in the world. but I think we are trapped like everyone else.

[Dreamdancer]

Originally Posted by -Ra

actually that is wrong.. I have spent a majority of the past 17 years in the music industry,

Ah, thats where the problem starts... you need to look at what your customers are doing, and act accordingly. The business is changing, and as you are playing EU, you should know how important it is to adapt...

Originally Posted by -Ra

and the lack of album sales can and will destroy a band. When a band gets signed toa label the label does more then enjoy the money from the album sales. it has to get a production crew, booking agents, merch designers, tour support as well as spend a few hundred thousand dollars or more on recording the album and who knows on how much any videos might cost.

WHY does there have to be an album?!? ALL my albums (and I have A LOT) collect dust on the shelf or in the cellar. My preferred medium to store music on is as big as a paperback book and speaks USB2.0, and holds ALL the music I have. As for production costs, all you need is a MacBook Pro and Logic, lets say 3.5K US$, as spending any more on gear will not make up for lack of talent. Tour support? Hey, there's companies that do this without your having to sell your soul to them. Videos? Heard of that british band that played in front of CCTV and then got the footage via freedom of information act? THAT was a cool idea for a video and cost... oh, a few hours time and a few stamps.

I hope you understand why I believe the classic "record label" concept is vain.

Originally Posted by -Ra

If music is pirated insted of purchased,

Please take a minute and think about whether all music that is "pirated" (what a silly word, I cant recall the moment I sailed into Time Warner on my battleship, guns blazing, and robbed them of their music, arrrr matey!) would have resulted in an additional sale if downloading would not have been an option.

Originally Posted by -Ra

the record label will cut funding if they are not making any money. and then the band is screwed having not recieved the money they where needing to finish the tour or albums. I have seen many bands hurt just this way. Oh! and if the record sales of one of the lables biggest signed acts does not get the cd sales expected, wether it be because people pirate instead of purchase or the album sucked, it hurts all the other bands on the label. the record label will not take the hit to help the bands, the let the bands starve themselves and pack into a smaller bus or sometimes their own cars to do the rest of a tour.

The record label is out of the game already. What you just told me was that a lot of artists got hardcore buttsecks from their label and would have been better off without one in the first place. Because the label will bill the artists if their (the label's) marketing did not work out. How is that fair?

Originally Posted by -Ra

And anyone who might be ok with pirating music, should not complain if the ever get scammed in EU, it is no different.. you steal music, scammers should be able to scam your gear

Oh. Do the scammers come back to you and give you money OUT OF THEIR FREE WILL after they found out they liked your gear, just as I do? Great scammers you have there, I would like to be one of them cool d00dz.

Regards,
DD

[Dreamdancer]

Originally Posted by DeeDee

Which countries are known? USA for sure, right? Others?

Here in Germany, we are currently trying to get our supreme court to outlaw data retention and online searches. The outlook is not too good.

Regards,
DD

[Skam]

On the suject on "BUY CDS" "CD's ARE OUTDATED" discussion.


I download full CDs and sometimes just songs from iTunes Store if I really like it, via my ipod. That way I get the mp3s and I pay the bands for their work (imo its a small price for hours of entertainment)
If I want the music on a CD i can always just burn it..
And if I want to listen first, the itunes store gives a 'pre-listen' oppertunity before you decide to buy the track/cd.

I do download some music though. But more rarely lately.

[gwit]

The police surveilance powers and powers or detention without arrest are probably the worst in the world, here in the UK, that once great bastion of freedom of speech and worldwide protector of oil (sorry meant to say Liberty).

We will now permit detention without arrest for up to 42 days - so any of you with anti government thoughts or dark poetry best keep it to yourselves !!

[Dreamdancer]

Originally Posted by Skam

I download full CDs and sometimes just songs from iTunes Store

Here, we encounter another problem.

I believe we are clear about that we want the ARTIST to receive a majority of the funds we spend on an album. Now the problem is that the labels go out of their way to scam artists out of their percentage of electronic sales, via convoluted contracts and well-paid lawyers. So, the iTunes store (or anything like it, legal downloads) is actually a very problematic way of supporting your artist.

Regards,
DD

[Skam]

Originally Posted by Dreamdancer

Here, we encounter another problem.

I believe we are clear about that we want the ARTIST to receive a majority of the funds we spend on an album. Now the problem is that the labels go out of their way to scam artists out of their percentage of electronic sales, via convoluted contracts and well-paid lawyers. So, the iTunes store (or anything like it, legal downloads) is actually a very problematic way of supporting your artist.

Regards,
DD

To be honest thats a issue that the artists should work out with their manager, not something that me, the consumer, should have to worry about.


Imo.

[Robotek]

Nice, now MA will start charging this swedish CiA 2pecs for every wiretap they make. Coz they r makin this terrible terrible lag all over eu`s poor lil servers...lol

Cheers!
Robo