Exorcism of Emily Rose (Anneliese Michel) - Science VS Rel

[Nerishimo]

Its actually pretty simple.

God created the Universe. In order for God to create the Universe, galaxies, planets, etc., he had to create a set of rules or nothing would work (up would be down, red would be blue, etc.) Since God is infallible, he could not break these rules that he had created (known to us as science), so he had to operate within the boundaries of these rules, thus comes the big bang.

hmmm I'm kinda drunk, I'll continue once I'm more sober.

[The Beast]

I gotta say, this thread, has turned into the biggest pile of shite I have ever read.
Not one person here seems to understand the concept of faith, and because of that, the heart of the matter has been completely missed. Until the concept of faith is fully understood, ya just talking bollocks really.
Oh sure, we can all waffle on about the flaws in religions, any idiot can do that. But it takes an understanding of faith to make a discussion like this of any worth.

[Skam]

Originally Posted by The Beast

I gotta say, this thread, has turned into the biggest pile of shite I have ever read.
Not one person here seems to understand the concept of faith, and because of that, the heart of the matter has been completely missed. Until the concept of faith is fully understood, ya just talking bollocks really.
Oh sure, we can all waffle on about the flaws in religions, any idiot can do that. But it takes an understanding of faith to make a discussion like this of any worth.

Acctually most of the thread hasnt been about religion, but how science can or cannot prove existance of religious phenomenons. Science hasnt much faith in it. We havent discussed faith so how can you say we have no understanding for it?

[The Beast]

Originally Posted by Skam

Actually most of the thread hasnt been about religion, but how science can or cannot prove existance of religious phenomenons. Science hasnt much faith in it. We havent discussed faith so how can you say we have no understanding for it?

Yes, thats exactly my point. Religion has nothing to do with Science. Religion is about faith.

[Skam]

Originally Posted by The Beast

Yes, thats exactly my point. Religion has nothing to do with Science. Religion is about faith.

But this THREAD is about religion versus science. If it was a thread just about religion...

[Rave]

Originally Posted by The Beast

Yes, thats exactly my point. Religion has nothing to do with Science. Religion is about faith.

That is not true. Religion is also about what causes things to happen.

In the example I gave about Anneliese Michel. Science said she was crazy, chemically wrong in the head. Religion said she was possessed by spirits. Well, thats where my point lies. Who has the right answer? Well no one truely knows. Everyone has there own "proof" and facts. Maybe something did possess her, maybe her brain just clicked the wrong way at some point. But why would a truely healthy girl suddenly turn viciously insane. As I said, science said she was in a state of psychosis, however she was aware of it. True psychosis and schizo patients are never aware of it, they do not anything is wrong- when they are in a normal state they draw blanks to those points in their lives. Yet she knew what was happening every moment, and she was terrified. Science had a hard time explaining that, and still would. But it still doesnt mean she was truely possessed, no one really knows. She could have had a really unique case of epileptic psychosis or schizofrenia.

religion versus science? Isnt that like football versus photocopiers? I dont see how the two can be compared in any rational equation.

Primary tennants of religion are that the original idea is correct and must not be changed, indeed to investigate/doubt/think about the core concept is commonly a dangerous thing to do and people have gone to war for thinking "hmm, this religion idea, I wonder if there's a better way"

Science is about discovering the truth, if something that has always been believed can be proven false, then the new truth becomes the truth and noone needs to get nailed to anything in order for it to happen.

Argue all you want, but I'd rather be in a room full of scientists with opposing views than a room of religous people with opposing views.

[Darkscorp]

Originally Posted by The Beast

I gotta say, this thread, has turned into the biggest pile of shite I have ever read.
Not one person here seems to understand the concept of faith, and because of that, the heart of the matter has been completely missed. Until the concept of faith is fully understood, ya just talking bollocks really.
Oh sure, we can all waffle on about the flaws in religions, any idiot can do that. But it takes an understanding of faith to make a discussion like this of any worth.

I have briefly glossed thru most of this thread, taking in what seemed to be crucial to the original topic.

Erst this Reply to Beast. This may seem longwinded, but it may help shed some light on the concept of faith.

Where I come from (Hawaii) native Hawaiians are taught at a very young age what the "World" is. By that I mean is how one percieves the world in general.

These teachings become so imbued into ones self that it literally exists as part of your being. And no...its not a religion per se, its more of an awareness. Those of us that have been brought up in this manner "see" the world differently than others.

While some may see a plant or rock, we see an essence, a life force so to speak. Everything to us is alive.

We aren't Coereced into looking at things this way. We aren't threatened or faced with punishment either if we can't. This has been one of most religions biggest problems. To be faithful you need to be afraid of something. If you commit a sin you will be banished to some horrible place for all eternity when you die. If you do good, happiness abounds when you pass away.

But..what if, you are raised without these fears? No persecution for what ever belief structure you may be predisposed to? The moral and ethical boundries are set at a very young age,and its up to you as to how you will progress down whatever path you may choose.

To us..it just is. The concept of faith doesn't exist. It may be hard for some people to understand, but when you know that the way things are is because of a reason,you never question it.

What most westeners have a hard time understanding is the ability to "let it go". Most are afraid to do so because they need an anchor,something that they can tangibley(and physically) hold on to. So they hold onto belief systems that actually holds them back. This way of thinking has its roots established at a very young age.

So understandabley, it comes as no surprise that when they are exposed to something that is so radically different they will usually shun it as being "evil".

Its all fear based. We fear what we don't know. And when we seek answers we are fed more fear on top of it to reinforce someone elses idea of what they think you should beleive in.

I dunno..John Lennon had it right...Imagine...

[Skam]

Just a summary: We so far have been discussing how science can prove phenomenons like obsession to be natural instead of supernatural, how things that hasnt yet been proven to exist (like obsessions) can or cannot be true -and how trustworthy science is to be taken as a fact.
We have NOT been discussing what is best - Science or Religion. And might I say, so far the thread has been quite a mature discussion, a nice discussion.
The Beast, if there is something you feel we are "missing" in this thread then why dont you contribute with it in a post instead of rolling eyes over that we havent made such points yet?

Ofc Science and Religion cannot be compared just like that, its two opposites. That discussion would be a dull one. Imo both religion and science is needed.

But it is fully possible to discuss wether or not science have a influence on religion and the other way around. Why is it, for example, that some schools in US dont allow the Darwin-theory to be teached? Because Man was god-made, not evolution -in their opinion. Is this the right? How do we know whats right? Religion isnt proven but neither is many of the large scientific theories.

You cannot say science and religion has NOTHING to do with eachother in todays society.

Btw how about that they discovered Antimass? Like nerishimo said in gods eyes everything was made with a opposite, alas also Mass should have one, and they found it USING science (particleaccellerator). Now its to see if this will be used for or against religion?

Edit: just saying... Sleepytime for me so wont be able to reply before in the mornin *yawn* dont flood the thread now

[Rave]

Unfortunately I am seeing people saying they dont compare and such. It means they arent reading the entire post. Which is crucial. Please read all the points I was making, and then youll see what Im comparing.