Adj as 97 & as 129 = the same stats and diferent price

[aridash]

Originally Posted by Immortal

If I set my level hit =67, dmg=100, and ave dmg =75%, ave hits =100%, i get them to 2.97/2.96 There is no way in hell you can get those figures at 67/67.

and if you apply the markup on the Apis there is no way in hell you can get that economy either. markup on (L) such as this is largely dictated by the neutralising the gap between non-L and L, increasing the markup and therefore bringing the eco down to nearer that of unL items - if much better eco, the unL item owners will switch and the markup will rise back up.

at todays apis price of 239% you need 50/50 skills to get better eco with either the as129 or adj97. on the other hand, Apis gives you 10dmg/sec more.

enjoy.

[Immortal]

Originally Posted by aridash

and if you apply the markup on the Apis there is no way in hell you can get that economy either. markup on (L) such as this is largely dictated by the neutralising the gap between non-L and L, increasing the markup and therefore bringing the eco down to nearer that of unL items - if much better eco, the unL item owners will switch and the markup will rise back up.

at todays apis price of 239% you need 50/50 skills to get better eco with either the as129 or adj97. on the other hand, Apis gives you 10dmg/sec more.

enjoy.

Perhaps you'd like to backup what you say with some figures. You are trying to convince people to use a site that will give them bad data and cost them shedloads of money, otherwise.

[CareBear]

Originally Posted by Immortal

EntropiaTools is grossly outdated and does not include your damage level when calculating it's eco. Carebear suggests you use entropedia.

It is assuming you have lvl 100 in damage with both those (i use my own calculator. If you want a better approxmation my suggestion is to use entropedia.info). It is also assuming you are getting max hits. It is also assuming no eco loss due to overamped weapons.

If I set my level hit =67, dmg=100, and ave dmg =75%, ave hits =100%, i get them to 2.97/2.96 There is no way in hell you can get those figures at 67/67.

Even if I set them to 100/100, max eco you get with dante (multiplying by .75) is 3.11/3.10 - it's actually more like 2.86/2.85 due to 8% miss.

Hint: Stop using entropiatools

Side note: at 40/40 the figures should be -higher- than 48 dmg/sec :O

I have no idea wth is with that... but it *did* calc the apis dmg/sec correctly

ummm... no, it doesn't assume anything. And I never said use entropedia, I said if you want a site that stores your skill, use entropedia.

Dont be bitter because your dumb ass lost a bunch of money.

Please show me where my calculations are incorrect.

*edit*
lol... are you talking about the defaults? If you don't put in your own personal min/max dmg & hit ability... then yes, it defaults to max. This is far from assuming anything... its called a default.

*edit 2*
wtf are you putting in for hit ability & min/max dmg? there should be no place to put "67" or "100"... Hit Ability is a value betwee 0.0 and 10.0... min & max dmg are the damage #'s displayed to you in the weapon info screen (with no amp).

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Jed

How are you getting your numbers? Granted I just plugged some numbers into EntropiaTools.com's weapon compare, but I didn't get anything close to what you are saying.

Apis+Dante @ 239% = 2.455 avg dmg/pec and 59.122 avg dmg/sec
AS-129+Dante @ 67/67 = 3.074 avg dmg/pec and 59.546 avg dmg/sec
Adj Stark+Dante @ 67/67 = 3.069 avg dmg/pec and 59.64 avg dmg/sec

Again, according to EntropiaTools.com's weapon compare the AS-129 and Adj Stark match the eco of the Apis @ 239% at Level 40/40, but at a greatly reduced dmg/sec.

Apis+Dante@ 239% = 2.455 avg dmg/pec and 59.122 dmg/sec
AS-129+Dante @ 40/40 = 2.483 avg dmg/pec and 48.082 avg dmg/sec
Adj Stark+Dante @ 40/40 = 2.478 avg dmg/pec and 48.156 avg dmg/sec

Assuming that the calculations of the tool are correct and that I didn't make an error in inputing the info.

You must have made an error inputing the data.

For example, AS-129+Dante @ 40/40 = 2.394 avg dmg/pec at entropiatools and 2.40 avg dmg/pec at entropedia.

This combo catches up to the Apis at around 46/46.

But 2.45 eco sucks balls anyway.

[Zerpa]

Originally Posted by Immortal

EntropiaTools is grossly outdated and does not include your damage level when calculating it's eco. Carebear suggests you use entropedia.

It is assuming you have lvl 100 in damage with both those (i use my own calculator. If you want a better approxmation my suggestion is to use entropedia.info). It is also assuming you are getting max hits. It is also assuming no eco loss due to overamped weapons.

If I set my level hit =67, dmg=100, and ave dmg =75%, ave hits =100%, i get them to 2.97/2.96 There is no way in hell you can get those figures at 67/67.

Even if I set them to 100/100, max eco you get with dante (multiplying by .75) is 3.11/3.10 - it's actually more like 2.86/2.85 due to 8% miss.

Hint: Stop using entropiatools

Side note: at 40/40 the figures should be -higher- than 48 dmg/sec :O

I have no idea wth is with that... but it *did* calc the apis dmg/sec correctly

No offence but arent you a little bit nibby to tell others how things work, when you clearly are wrong in the above stated?

Read, think and first after that write.

[aridash]

Originally Posted by Immortal

Perhaps you'd like to backup what you say with some figures. You are trying to convince people to use a site that will give them bad data and cost them shedloads of money, otherwise.

my info is based on Entropedia, are you saying it is wrong? the data is there for all to see, you cannot get 2.97 eco with ~240% markup. if you have an alternative tool that show otherwise, please publish it.

though if you must have data presented, with 50/50 hit/dmg (eco in bold, Apis markup set to 239%):

	         Name	           Class	Type	Damage	Range	Attacks	Dmg/sec	Power	Max. TT	Ammo	Decay	Cost	Dmg/PEC	SIB	Source	Markup	Markup
1               GeoTrek LP485 Apis (L)	Rifle	BLP	67.29	58.3	53	59.4	3465.5	404.00	16	6.987	27.27	2.47	Yes	Crafted		239
2		Starkhov AS-129	         Rifle	BLP	53.37	63.0	54	48.0	3025.9	379.00	13	8.520	21.52	2.48	No	Looted	6500	
3		Starkhov AS-97 Adjusted	Rifle	BLP	52.48	84.0	55	48.1	4040.8	599.00	13	8.200	21.20	2.48	No	Looted	13000

[Immortal]

Originally Posted by aridash

my info is based on Entropedia, are you saying it is wrong? the data is there for all to see, you cannot get 2.97 eco with ~240% markup. if you have an alternative tool that show otherwise, please publish it.

though if you must have data presented, with 50/50 hit/dmg (eco in bold, Apis markup set to 239%):

	         Name	           Class	Type	Damage	Range	Attacks	Dmg/sec	Power	Max. TT	Ammo	Decay	Cost	Dmg/PEC	SIB	Source	Markup	Markup
1               GeoTrek LP485 Apis (L)	Rifle	BLP	67.29	58.3	53	59.4	3465.5	404.00	16	6.987	27.27	2.47	Yes	Crafted		239
2		Starkhov AS-129	         Rifle	BLP	53.37	63.0	54	48.0	3025.9	379.00	13	8.520	21.52	2.48	No	Looted	6500	
3		Starkhov AS-97 Adjusted	Rifle	BLP	52.48	84.0	55	48.1	4040.8	599.00	13	8.200	21.20	2.48	No	Looted	13000

Err. When did i say the apis @ 240% could compete with maxed unl in eco...

As this thread has gone way out of hand (and i already shown the benefits of using (L) even comparing to mod stark..so i think comparing apis which is more expensive and less dmg than cb26 is a futile argument) I will let people do their own research. My own tool (it's an excel spreadsheet) i still have to iron out kinks... but as a favour ari I will go through my s/sheet and find where my (maybe a few days...my master s/sheet is at work :P). I have no problem being wrong if it turns out my calcs are in error.

Originally Posted by CareBear

bitter .... dumb ass ....wtf

I don't use your site. Never did... (until i was arguing with someone else using it and tested) there was an argument in another thread where someone quoted figures from it that were misinterpreted because they couldn't use your tool properly. i.e slither. That was the case I assumed here. The figures 67/100 are hit-dmg professions levels I use (that your site won't accomodate for) in my own calcs (and corresponds to entropedia entries)
Sorry - for some reason I mixed discussions up on calculators with someone else and was thinking entropiatools (and when I posted that I was tired+sick)

The answer to the OP question is

Adj has 22m more range.

[slither]

there was an argument in another thread where someone quoted figures from it that were misinterpreted because they couldn't use your tool properly. i.e slither

Just so I don't look like a dumbass lol I can use the tool correctly, but the figures didn't agree with yours.

[Immortal]

Originally Posted by slither

Just so I don't look like a dumbass lol I can use the tool correctly, but the figures didn't agree with yours.

Those didn't agree with entropedia either though. Sorry that wasn't meant to be a "slither is a dumbass" comment but a "the person i was arguing over minute differences in numbers was slither"

Maybe I should of said "I can't use that tool to get the same figures on entropedia"

oh well :p

[LostInEntropia]

2 months ago I did an eco test with adj97 at level 65 hit and 60 dmg versus a maxed out UL assassin (shooting over 100 kingfisher youngs) and compared those with carebears calculations and I can only say they are spot on.