Unl X5 In Today's Market

[Jimmy B]

Originally Posted by Skippie

a SIB weapon by it's definition is a weapon which produces a higher rate of skilling when you are on the learning bonus. i believe this has long been proven to be 150%.

doer or jimmyb can correct me if i am wrong. but i've seen that number tossed around. it's why ppl love SIBs.

I've never tested it myself Skippie, I pretty much only use L weps I've maxed out so not had the opportunity. Think there's some test threads floating around though.

[Skippie]

Originally Posted by kygon

150% or more but tbh I suspect this weapon will give you some serious gains regardless of in sib or not

it's very hard for me to actually tell, but as i have no blp skills really, i've gone from 2.4k to 3k in two days. continuing to skill on the weapon until the bonus clicks off, then i will chip out a 10 ped chip of blp and get back on the bonus while i beat the tt of the sucker down for a buyer.

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

I've never tested it myself Skippie, I pretty much only use L weps I've maxed out so not had the opportunity. Think there's some test threads floating around though.

right, figured. i've never tested it either, but i've had that figure quoted to me a number of times. certainly the bonus is some % of normal. 150% i quote just cause that's what i've seen said. could be 125% or 200%, i dunno, but it's more than normal.

i'm running a test today, btw, as was suggested to me on another forum.

i'm running 1000 peds of blp ammo through the x5 in dome 2, then repeating through the MM 1000 peds of laser ammo. ammo consumption and decay are no where near the same. however, i'll be posting total decay stats for the test. i.e., what's decay run when i do 1000 peds on the blp gun? what's decay run when i repeat through the old school MM? it's suggested that that will be the best way to judge the two weapons. not even sure why, but i'm doing the test.

cheers.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Jimmy B

I've never tested it myself Skippie, I pretty much only use L weps I've maxed out so not had the opportunity. Think there's some test threads floating around though.

I've not tested it directly (quantitatively), as it's a very hard thing to do and would require multiple avatars and lots of time, but my subjective experience from the few occasions i've used a weapon i had SIB on in recent history is that there's no difference. Most tests i remember seeing have been inconclusive.

In any case, there's definitely not a consensus that 150% gains is granted by SIB. I think the best you could say is that there's a fair chance that keeping yourself in the learning period increases your gains. I don't think it does so in a way that compensates for the reduced efficiency, but not everyone is that concerned with efficiency.

[Doer]

Originally Posted by Skippie

i'm running a test today, btw, as was suggested to me on another forum.

i'm running 1000 peds of blp ammo through the x5 in dome 2, then repeating through the MM 1000 peds of laser ammo. ammo consumption and decay are no where near the same. however, i'll be posting total decay stats for the test. i.e., what's decay run when i do 1000 peds on the blp gun? what's decay run when i repeat through the old school MM? it's suggested that that will be the best way to judge the two weapons. not even sure why, but i'm doing the test.

cheers.

There's a problem in that both number of uses and total ammo+decay seem to be factors (and then there's SIB on top), but from a purely comparative perspective (X5 vs. MM) i suppose that's as good as any test of that length.

The real interesting one would be to do 1k peds ammo with damage SIB, 1k peds after maxing, chip out to fall just below the threshold, and do 1k peds again with damage SIB, and finally another test maxed. I think we could potentially draw some real conclusions about SIB from that test.

[Skippie]

Originally Posted by Doer

I've not tested it directly (quantitatively), as it's a very hard thing to do and would require multiple avatars and lots of time, but my subjective experience from the few occasions i've used a weapon i had SIB on in recent history is that there's no difference. Most tests i remember seeing have been inconclusive.

In any case, there's definitely not a consensus that 150% gains is granted by SIB. I think the best you could say is that there's a fair chance that keeping yourself in the learning period increases your gains. I don't think it does so in a way that compensates for the reduced efficiency, but not everyone is that concerned with efficiency.

my other damage related skills do seem to be skilling at a higher rate than they do when i use the MM. doer, is there a way that i could run some small test, using the sib enabled X5 bonus, scan skills, repeat the test with the MM and test to see how the other gains are or are not affected?

why would multiple avatars be necessary for testing the skill rate of the SIB bonus, also? that line confuses me.

[Skippie]

Originally Posted by Doer

The real interesting one would be to do 1k peds ammo with damage SIB, 1k peds after maxing, chip out to fall just below the threshold, and do 1k peds again with damage SIB, and finally another test maxed. I think we could potentially draw some real conclusions about SIB from that test.

well i will be able to do that in 1-2 days. as i think i will hit level 56 today, and level 57 in a few more days shooting the x5.

if you'd like to direct me so i do the test correctly, you know i'm no math guy. blarney guy, yes, math guy, no.

[Skippie]

doer, immortal suggests over on the other forum the following:

Originally Posted by Immortal

In short:

You're still going to get a skill bonus bonus even when x5 is maxed. I haven't had the pleasure to record and analyse skillgains from an unl SIB weapon (yet) but I can only assume it works the same for maxed (L). Now it's been a long time since I ever used a weapon I had SIB=Yes with, but I did recently (a couple of months or so ago) max the ur-125.

If you want to do a 'scientific' test/analysis skippie chat me ingame I tell you what data I need (and that includes testing on MM too).

Anyone else who wants to do tests (just logging your skills + expenditures and getting an analysis) is welcome also.

again, i'm no math guy... but tell me how to proceed with a proper test and i'll gladly do the honor of clicking the ammo through the guns. prolly not gonna have a MM and X5 together in one place very often in this game, anyhow, so i'm game to test whatever.

i suspect doctorh is also down for some weapon comparison. we've run some runs using the X5 against our MMs and are trying to glean what we can from that comparison. as well to properly test the X5, i probably need to buy an evil amp. auktuma still making them? i'd like to test MM a106 versus X5 evil to get the dps the same and see if there are any differences in armor decay and what not as well on the runs.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Skippie

well i will be able to do that in 1-2 days. as i think i will hit level 56 today, and level 57 in a few more days shooting the x5.

if you'd like to direct me so i do the test correctly, you know i'm no math guy. blarney guy, yes, math guy, no.

You could use jdegre's skill scanner. You'd need an account though to save your skills. Simply scan your skills, save them to his website, hunt one phase of the test, scan skills again, and it tells you how much esi tt value you've gained in everything. Then repeat with other phases of the test. (be sure to record relevant results between each test)

[Doer]

This is getting way off topic, but regarding the tests: just make sure you use jdegre's skill grabber to make an accurate snapshot of skills between each phase, and keep track of how much ammo you blow through the gun (the easiest way is to not repair the gun until the end of the hunt -- then you can use weapon decay to calculate # shots and don't have to worry about using looted ammo). Obviously don't change the amp model during the test. You can upload the snapshots to Entropedia one by one and look at your skill volume using wikitools, or you can send them all to me and i can fiddle around with them using my scripts. Oh, don't forget to get a snapshot before you start.

Because skill gains are "dynamic", it's important to repeat the test at least once (and if that's inconclusive, again). To really eliminate variables, it would be even better to do it with different avatars (why i suggested it would take multi-player involvement), to reduce the possibility of long-term avatar-specific factors skewing results.

The before/after dmg learning period test will help answer whether there is an increased gain during the learning period that ends afterwards. It won't, by itself, answer the issue of whether SIB weapons in general give increased skill gains. That's a lot harder to answer because you'd need two weapons that are identical except for SIB. Looking at the results with MM and X5 should be interesting, though.

I'd suggest you get Witte's little program from the attachments thread and run it while you do the test. It will count hits and the damage done so that you can find actual HA and CHA with each weapon.

[wyz]

I'd rate the gun at between +220-240k